5 ms·

"we're switching from a walled garden to another" how do these kinds of posts end up on page one so often?!

sandGorgon 8y ago
https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum >That being said, this codebase isn't your typical open source project because it's not a library or package with a limited scope—it's our entire product. Not sure what you mean by that.
- coldtea 8y ago
  They mean that it's not just some library or package they created for their own use (which many companies outsource, e.g. Facebook outsourcing React). It's their full product -- you can get all their code from GitHub and run your own version of their service locally (so it would be like Facebook the company outsourcing the whole codebase behind Facebook the website).
  - kakwa_ 8y ago
    It also means that it's probably not practical to deploy it yourself as it relies on a big infrastructure deployed in a particular way.
mysterydip 8y ago
A phrase I just heard of recently: the magpie developer https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-magpie-developer/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-magpie-developer/
basil-rash 8y ago
In which sense do you mean "walled garden"? The article actually discusses moving away from Slack because it is a walled garden, which to them means that the content inside Slack is only accessible/discoverable via Slack - versus Spectrum, which is indexed by search engines.
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  A garden doesn't stop being walled if the walls are glass, and thus transparent. Walls are about control of what's inside of them, including keeping users locked in when they get inside. Using custom proprietary protocols and not giving an easy way to get at your own data are two common aspects. EDIT: There are degrees to being walled garden. Slack is one, pure and simple. My scanning of Spectrum's site did not reveal ease of export or FOSS mentioned anywhere on the main page, or on the features subpage, so I immediately assumed it's pretty much as walled as Slack. Now that other replies mention it, I did find a Github icon at the very bottom, linking to some repositories, so maybe the walls aren't as high and thick as I assumed. Is being hosted on a central server operated by a third party, without federation features, a wall? Technically, yes. But a small one, relatively easy to scale. Personally, as long as I can get all my data out, and as long as I can easily interoperate with it from outside of the garden, I'm comfortable with that. Closed protocols are essentially barbed wire.
  - basil-rash 8y ago
    There is a big "download all my data" button right on your profile page, which instantly gives you a nice JSON dump. As for "custom proprietary protocols", the entire Spectrum platform appears to be FOSS, released under the BSD 3-Clause license [1]. 1: https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum
    - black_puppydog 8y ago
      Facebook has such a download button. In fact, anyone who wants to do business in the EU needs to have one, really. Does that mean there are no walled gardens on the web any longer? And without a token from spectrum, the apps will be limited to "local" operation. Fat load of use cases that has for a chat application. @TeMPOral has it right: it stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Hangouts chat was a walled garden, even though you could connect via Jabber, and download your stuff via takeout.
      - 8y ago
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Apollo seems to be hell-bent on content marketing these days. I feel it's being excessively name-dropped everywhere.
rdescartes 8y ago
Seem like you can host your own spectrum service now? https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum
coldtea 8y ago
Or perhaps that "walled garden" aspect is not what they care about (they mention the not-searchable walled aspect of Slack that they do care about and that Spectrum doesn't have that issue). But in any case, what's the problem with "We switched from one walled garden to another"? Perhaps, the "walled garden" aspect is not what's important to the team, but they care about other interaction aspects? Are they allowed to, or is "walled garden" a no no, and people should not post their use of such services? It's like a GNU zealot dissing a post about a video editor switching to/from FCP X as "we switched from one proprietary NLE to another". Yeah, so? Should proprietary/walled garden software be disallowed? Is there something that makes those posts not interesting/useful? If they had switched to some open source alternative it would have made for a better post? Aren't there people that still want to use such services, and do care about the relative merits of different vendors? Besides, doesn't a large slice of HN make their income either as entrepreneurs or as developers of "walled garden" SaaS products?
themoat 8y ago
I used to work for a startup that competed in this space. The amount of articles, awards, and HN posts that our marketing team fabricated was unreal. We won awards we didn't deserve because the Awards company's owner was on our board. Every article out there was carefully created by our copywriter. Every review on all the comparison sites...all false. When I see a Medium post recommending a new software over another (especially over Slack since that gives me flashbacks), I just assume that there's financial incentive on part of the writer.
aquadrop 8y ago
Yep. Also spectrum doesn't seem to have clients for neither windows nor android, how is it a good choice for open online community?

https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum >That being said, this codebase isn't your typical open source project because it's not a library or package with a limited scope—it's our entire product. Not sure what you mean by that.

coldtea 8y ago
They mean that it's not just some library or package they created for their own use (which many companies outsource, e.g. Facebook outsourcing React). It's their full product -- you can get all their code from GitHub and run your own version of their service locally (so it would be like Facebook the company outsourcing the whole codebase behind Facebook the website).
- kakwa_ 8y ago
  It also means that it's probably not practical to deploy it yourself as it relies on a big infrastructure deployed in a particular way.

mysterydip 8y ago

A phrase I just heard of recently: the magpie developer https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-magpie-developer/ https://blog.codinghorror.com/the-magpie-developer/

basil-rash 8y ago

In which sense do you mean "walled garden"? The article actually discusses moving away from Slack because it is a walled garden, which to them means that the content inside Slack is only accessible/discoverable via Slack - versus Spectrum, which is indexed by search engines.

TeMPOraL 8y ago
A garden doesn't stop being walled if the walls are glass, and thus transparent. Walls are about control of what's inside of them, including keeping users locked in when they get inside. Using custom proprietary protocols and not giving an easy way to get at your own data are two common aspects. EDIT: There are degrees to being walled garden. Slack is one, pure and simple. My scanning of Spectrum's site did not reveal ease of export or FOSS mentioned anywhere on the main page, or on the features subpage, so I immediately assumed it's pretty much as walled as Slack. Now that other replies mention it, I did find a Github icon at the very bottom, linking to some repositories, so maybe the walls aren't as high and thick as I assumed. Is being hosted on a central server operated by a third party, without federation features, a wall? Technically, yes. But a small one, relatively easy to scale. Personally, as long as I can get all my data out, and as long as I can easily interoperate with it from outside of the garden, I'm comfortable with that. Closed protocols are essentially barbed wire.
- basil-rash 8y ago
  There is a big "download all my data" button right on your profile page, which instantly gives you a nice JSON dump. As for "custom proprietary protocols", the entire Spectrum platform appears to be FOSS, released under the BSD 3-Clause license [1]. 1: https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum
  - black_puppydog 8y ago
    Facebook has such a download button. In fact, anyone who wants to do business in the EU needs to have one, really. Does that mean there are no walled gardens on the web any longer? And without a token from spectrum, the apps will be limited to "local" operation. Fat load of use cases that has for a chat application. @TeMPOral has it right: it stays a walled garden as long as it's under central control. Hangouts chat was a walled garden, even though you could connect via Jabber, and download your stuff via takeout.
    - 8y ago

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Apollo seems to be hell-bent on content marketing these days. I feel it's being excessively name-dropped everywhere.

rdescartes 8y ago

Seem like you can host your own spectrum service now? https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum https://github.com/withspectrum/spectrum

coldtea 8y ago

Or perhaps that "walled garden" aspect is not what they care about (they mention the not-searchable walled aspect of Slack that they do care about and that Spectrum doesn't have that issue). But in any case, what's the problem with "We switched from one walled garden to another"? Perhaps, the "walled garden" aspect is not what's important to the team, but they care about other interaction aspects? Are they allowed to, or is "walled garden" a no no, and people should not post their use of such services? It's like a GNU zealot dissing a post about a video editor switching to/from FCP X as "we switched from one proprietary NLE to another". Yeah, so? Should proprietary/walled garden software be disallowed? Is there something that makes those posts not interesting/useful? If they had switched to some open source alternative it would have made for a better post? Aren't there people that still want to use such services, and do care about the relative merits of different vendors? Besides, doesn't a large slice of HN make their income either as entrepreneurs or as developers of "walled garden" SaaS products?

themoat 8y ago

I used to work for a startup that competed in this space. The amount of articles, awards, and HN posts that our marketing team fabricated was unreal. We won awards we didn't deserve because the Awards company's owner was on our board. Every article out there was carefully created by our copywriter. Every review on all the comparison sites...all false. When I see a Medium post recommending a new software over another (especially over Slack since that gives me flashbacks), I just assume that there's financial incentive on part of the writer.

aquadrop 8y ago

Yep. Also spectrum doesn't seem to have clients for neither windows nor android, how is it a good choice for open online community?