4 ms·

Though, interestingly, animism seems to be more popular among cultures that live closer to the "I need to put this spear into this boar" end of the lifestyle sp

Though, interestingly, animism seems to be more popular among cultures that live closer to the "I need to put this spear into this boar" end of the lifestyle spectrum. Meanwhile Rene Descartes, who probably wouldn't have had much trouble surviving as a vegetarian, was the one who was doing. . . interesting. . . things to dogs in order to prove a point. Not sure exactly what that implies, but it would seem to suggest that it's hard to wrap these sorts things up with a bow.

hirundo 8y ago
True, in a hunter-gatherer recognition of animal cognition would improve their chances of success. "I'm getting thirsty, maybe the boar is too, let's lay for it near the water hole." Maybe labeling it "other" is enough without labeling it "inferior".
- ddingus 8y ago
  Bingo. There is also the simple, brutal reality of the food chain. Being most aware and capable, also means seeing all of that, where the lesser beings are, and treating the world with respect. Should anyway. Our nature easily demonstrates otherwise. Animals are a lot like us. Simpler mostly.
  - henriquemaia 8y ago
    Though I understand what you mean by simpler, I would remind you that every living creature is adapted to its ecological niche, and that entails a baffling complexity that we, humans, can hardly grasp. Animals are a lot like us.
    - cmrdporcupine 8y ago
      They have different trade-offs. We're physically weak and fragile for our size. Long life and decent endurance and stupid smart, but crappy high infant mortality rates (before modern medicine), prone to food borne illnesses, sensitive to climate, have to cook our food, etc. My dog and cat and chickens are made of tougher stuff than me.
      - goldenkey 8y ago
        People are soft as hell these days. Humans are not sensitive to climate any more than most animals are. We dont need to cook our food either. Physically we are not weak, we are the only animal that can throw a stone and also climb a tree. I agree with you about the infant mortality though.
      - ddingus 8y ago
        It can be amazing to watch them exercize peak form.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      Right on. Agreed.
sneakernets 8y ago
I remember reading of an ancient Asian religious cult which held the belief that all living things are conscious (plants may have been the exception, I'm not sure). This naturally led to absurd practices such as cultists taking a broom everywhere and sweeping madly at the ground as they walked, lest anyone stepped on an ant. Lady MacBeth levels of paranoia.
- rosser 8y ago
  It's not a "cult", it's a religion with some 4-5 million adherents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism But please, continue dismissing millions of people's beliefs as "paranoia".
  - sneakernets 8y ago
    Wait..So it's confirmed? I swear I had no idea, and had no clue on what I was supposed to Google to find it. Interesting. But I'm not budging on the paranoia statement. If your beliefs make you worry about killing random things you can't even see, say "bye" to any semblance of good mental health.
    - PavlovsCat 8y ago
      Too many people who aren't "paranoid" about killing little insects even sweep the murder of humans under the rug. We also have no real answer to the fact that in a century, there might be no more insects, with all the further extinction of other species that'll entail. e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19129378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19129378 Even when we're extremely selfish and petty, if we take too much effort to take care of ourselves, that's generally fine, as long as it's legal and not too annoying -- but when others worry "too much" about yet others, and change their own behaviour accordingly, they can't possibly have "any semblance of good mental health"? Come on.. The insects at least actually exist, what of caring about random people that don't even exist yet, wouldn't that be even crazier? > Well, suppose that we believe what we are taught. It follows that if there are dollars to be made, you destroy the environment. The reason is elementary. The people who are going to be harmed by this are your grandchildren, and they don't have any votes in the market. Their interests are worth zero. Anybody that pays attention to their grandchildren's interests is being irrational, because what you're supposed to do is maximize your own interests, measured by wealth, right now. Nothing else matters. So destroying the environment and militarizing outer space are rational policies, but within a framework of institutional lunacy. If you accept the institutional lunacy, then the policies are rational. -- Noam Chomsky

hirundo 8y ago

True, in a hunter-gatherer recognition of animal cognition would improve their chances of success. "I'm getting thirsty, maybe the boar is too, let's lay for it near the water hole." Maybe labeling it "other" is enough without labeling it "inferior".

ddingus 8y ago
Bingo. There is also the simple, brutal reality of the food chain. Being most aware and capable, also means seeing all of that, where the lesser beings are, and treating the world with respect. Should anyway. Our nature easily demonstrates otherwise. Animals are a lot like us. Simpler mostly.
- henriquemaia 8y ago
  Though I understand what you mean by simpler, I would remind you that every living creature is adapted to its ecological niche, and that entails a baffling complexity that we, humans, can hardly grasp. Animals are a lot like us.
  - cmrdporcupine 8y ago
    They have different trade-offs. We're physically weak and fragile for our size. Long life and decent endurance and stupid smart, but crappy high infant mortality rates (before modern medicine), prone to food borne illnesses, sensitive to climate, have to cook our food, etc. My dog and cat and chickens are made of tougher stuff than me.
    - goldenkey 8y ago
      People are soft as hell these days. Humans are not sensitive to climate any more than most animals are. We dont need to cook our food either. Physically we are not weak, we are the only animal that can throw a stone and also climb a tree. I agree with you about the infant mortality though.
    - ddingus 8y ago
      It can be amazing to watch them exercize peak form.
  - ddingus 8y ago
    Right on. Agreed.

sneakernets 8y ago

I remember reading of an ancient Asian religious cult which held the belief that all living things are conscious (plants may have been the exception, I'm not sure). This naturally led to absurd practices such as cultists taking a broom everywhere and sweeping madly at the ground as they walked, lest anyone stepped on an ant. Lady MacBeth levels of paranoia.

rosser 8y ago
It's not a "cult", it's a religion with some 4-5 million adherents. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jainism But please, continue dismissing millions of people's beliefs as "paranoia".
- sneakernets 8y ago
  Wait..So it's confirmed? I swear I had no idea, and had no clue on what I was supposed to Google to find it. Interesting. But I'm not budging on the paranoia statement. If your beliefs make you worry about killing random things you can't even see, say "bye" to any semblance of good mental health.
  - PavlovsCat 8y ago
    Too many people who aren't "paranoid" about killing little insects even sweep the murder of humans under the rug. We also have no real answer to the fact that in a century, there might be no more insects, with all the further extinction of other species that'll entail. e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19129378 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19129378 Even when we're extremely selfish and petty, if we take too much effort to take care of ourselves, that's generally fine, as long as it's legal and not too annoying -- but when others worry "too much" about yet others, and change their own behaviour accordingly, they can't possibly have "any semblance of good mental health"? Come on.. The insects at least actually exist, what of caring about random people that don't even exist yet, wouldn't that be even crazier? > Well, suppose that we believe what we are taught. It follows that if there are dollars to be made, you destroy the environment. The reason is elementary. The people who are going to be harmed by this are your grandchildren, and they don't have any votes in the market. Their interests are worth zero. Anybody that pays attention to their grandchildren's interests is being irrational, because what you're supposed to do is maximize your own interests, measured by wealth, right now. Nothing else matters. So destroying the environment and militarizing outer space are rational policies, but within a framework of institutional lunacy. If you accept the institutional lunacy, then the policies are rational. -- Noam Chomsky