4 ms·

Also a testament to the value of under-promising. :)

by Will_Parker 8y ago

sizzzzlerz 8y ago
Then that was the mother of all under-promises!
- LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
  If they make it over 9000 days, they can state the just did a error on the exponent
  - Simon_says 8y ago
    Then the units would be time squared. That doesn’t make any sense!
    - mattkrause 8y ago
      Nah, just use scientific notation: 9e1 vs 9e3 days.
      - Simon_says 8y ago
        Oh, OK
felipemnoa 8y ago
If I remember correctly the reason they did not expect the mission to last longer than that was because they expected the solar panels to get covered with dust and thus render them useless. I don't think they had banked on martial winds to regularly clean them.
- classicsnoot 8y ago
  Your recollection is correct. Consider too the dust accumulation predictions for the moon landing. It would appear that we (as humans) are not very good at dust estimates (dustimates?). This is reinforced by the continuing struggle/inability to manufacture dirt. As an avid composter with a ton (lol sorry) of experience, I can make you hummus for days. I can turn 90% of your organic household waste into growth medium, bokashi tea, or pre-dirt in anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. But if you want me to make dirt? I'll need a decade to get you a production level process that requires raw stocks, pre-processing, vermiculture, aquaculture, and many rounds of late stage funding. Dirt production stymies every modern industrial process because as it stands, you cannot reduce the time necessary for conversion from hummus to dirt. I find it beautifully tragic that terraforming Mars will require mass dirt transfer from earth (consider this tonnage conundrum and revel in the irony). Don't take my word for it. Go out and try to make earth yourself. If you can reinvent this fundamental, elementary process, you will join Jonas Salk and Fritz Haber, and very few others, in changing The Game in a fundamental way.
  - mos_basik 8y ago
    Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy talks a lot about the "can't make dirt fast" problem, and I was surprised and impressed at how fascinating such a mundane-appearing problem could be. I had never thought about it before. Note: I think you mean humus. Hummus is "a Levantine dip or spread made from cooked, mashed chickpeas... blended with tahini, olive oil, lemon juice, salt and garlic."
    - classicsnoot 8y ago
      Autocorrect has outed me as a desirer of dips and spreads more so than an urban farmer. The shame and ignominy is overwhelming.
  - bitwize 8y ago
    Hummus? Or humus? Because one I'd like to eat with pita bread and a nice shawarma.The other...not so much :)
    - classicsnoot 8y ago
      You are correct. Incidentally, humus is a delightful compliment to a sound horticultural spread, not unlike it's etymological cousin. It can make things better, but it cannot be the main course.
  - emiliobumachar 8y ago
    Your main point stands, but, for terraforming purposes, a decade is a very short time period.
    - classicsnoot 8y ago
      In terms of exoplanetary interchange, time recedes and tonnage expands as the concern. Without a space elevator or MAC transfer solution, you'd be effectively FedExing teacups of dirt to a green house in a Sahara contained on Antarctica... on Mars.
  - 8y ago
- snowwrestler 8y ago
  It's also a matter of federal budgeting; when the rovers landed, NASA definitely did not have enough funds budgeted to keep tasking the rovers for 8,000 days. But as the rovers continued to operate, NASA requested more funds to continue, and Congress provided them. Once a robotic mission accomplishes its primary objective, NASA has a great story to tell about marginal cost vs return of additional funds. It's not that uncommon; heck they still get funding to keep the Voyager program operating.
- mturmon 8y ago
  Yes. For more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_event and: https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1823 https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1823 The second link shows about 18% power drop after 90 sols ~= 90 days.

Also a testament to the value of under-promising. :)

sizzzzlerz 8y ago

Then that was the mother of all under-promises!

LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
If they make it over 9000 days, they can state the just did a error on the exponent
- Simon_says 8y ago
  Then the units would be time squared. That doesn’t make any sense!
  - mattkrause 8y ago
    Nah, just use scientific notation: 9e1 vs 9e3 days.
    - Simon_says 8y ago
      Oh, OK

felipemnoa 8y ago

If I remember correctly the reason they did not expect the mission to last longer than that was because they expected the solar panels to get covered with dust and thus render them useless. I don't think they had banked on martial winds to regularly clean them.

classicsnoot 8y ago
Your recollection is correct. Consider too the dust accumulation predictions for the moon landing. It would appear that we (as humans) are not very good at dust estimates (dustimates?). This is reinforced by the continuing struggle/inability to manufacture dirt. As an avid composter with a ton (lol sorry) of experience, I can make you hummus for days. I can turn 90% of your organic household waste into growth medium, bokashi tea, or pre-dirt in anywhere from 6 months to 2 years. But if you want me to make dirt? I'll need a decade to get you a production level process that requires raw stocks, pre-processing, vermiculture, aquaculture, and many rounds of late stage funding. Dirt production stymies every modern industrial process because as it stands, you cannot reduce the time necessary for conversion from hummus to dirt. I find it beautifully tragic that terraforming Mars will require mass dirt transfer from earth (consider this tonnage conundrum and revel in the irony). Don't take my word for it. Go out and try to make earth yourself. If you can reinvent this fundamental, elementary process, you will join Jonas Salk and Fritz Haber, and very few others, in changing The Game in a fundamental way.
- mos_basik 8y ago
  Kim Stanley Robinson's Mars trilogy talks a lot about the "can't make dirt fast" problem, and I was surprised and impressed at how fascinating such a mundane-appearing problem could be. I had never thought about it before. Note: I think you mean humus. Hummus is "a Levantine dip or spread made from cooked, mashed chickpeas... blended with tahini, olive oil, lemon juice, salt and garlic."
  - classicsnoot 8y ago
    Autocorrect has outed me as a desirer of dips and spreads more so than an urban farmer. The shame and ignominy is overwhelming.
- bitwize 8y ago
  Hummus? Or humus? Because one I'd like to eat with pita bread and a nice shawarma.The other...not so much :)
  - classicsnoot 8y ago
    You are correct. Incidentally, humus is a delightful compliment to a sound horticultural spread, not unlike it's etymological cousin. It can make things better, but it cannot be the main course.
- emiliobumachar 8y ago
  Your main point stands, but, for terraforming purposes, a decade is a very short time period.
  - classicsnoot 8y ago
    In terms of exoplanetary interchange, time recedes and tonnage expands as the concern. Without a space elevator or MAC transfer solution, you'd be effectively FedExing teacups of dirt to a green house in a Sahara contained on Antarctica... on Mars.
- 8y ago
snowwrestler 8y ago
It's also a matter of federal budgeting; when the rovers landed, NASA definitely did not have enough funds budgeted to keep tasking the rovers for 8,000 days. But as the rovers continued to operate, NASA requested more funds to continue, and Congress provided them. Once a robotic mission accomplishes its primary objective, NASA has a great story to tell about marginal cost vs return of additional funds. It's not that uncommon; heck they still get funding to keep the Voyager program operating.
mturmon 8y ago
Yes. For more: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_event https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleaning_event and: https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1823 https://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images.cfm?id=1823 The second link shows about 18% power drop after 90 sols ~= 90 days.