5 ms·

Lobbying is not some magical salve you rub on every problem to make the laws say whatever you want. Of course it's not magical. It's money. No magic needed.

by skh 8y ago

Lobbying is not some magical salve you rub on every problem to make the laws say whatever you want. Of course it's not magical. It's money. No magic needed. Amazon spent a lot of money and effort to lobby against allowing states to tax internet sales. Then when it got big enough it lobbied for them because at their scale it became a competitive advantage against small players to have everyone charge sales taxes on internet orders. Amazon lobbies for tax break where they build warehouses and other buildings. The reality is it's more convenient to pretend you have no power because then it excuses your inaction. The reality is that I have very little power in comparison to Amazon. This is not disputable. I do have some power. Just nowhere near the amount of power that Amazon has. Firstly, prove Amazon, specifically, lobbied for the tax law they're benefiting from here. Let's start with that. I trust your Google skills. I trust your common sense too on this matter.

diminoten 8y ago
My google skills turned up absolutely nothing, and my common sense tells me that you're incorrectly applying a "corporations is bad" heuristic. What'll be fun is trying to watch you prove Amazon lobbied for a law that's older than it is.
- skh 8y ago
  I mentioned specific areas in which Amazon has lobbied for tax law changes. These specific areas are different than the area of the article in question but the comment that I responded to wasn't talking specifically about the taxes mentioned in the article. That person wrote: Don't hate the player, hate the game. If shit like this bothers you, write your local representatives and ask them to change it. Then you wrote in response to me: Lobbying is not some magical salve you rub on every problem to make the laws say whatever you want. The reality is it's more convenient to pretend you have no power because then it excuses your inaction. Now you seem to want to talk specifically about the taxes mentioned in the article. I think you are not staying on topic. We were never talking about that specific tax law. My Google skills returned this: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-is-wrong-amazon-lobbies-to-expand-internet-taxes https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-is-wrong-amazon-lob... In 2012, facing a slew of these court rulings, Amazon dropped its opposition to the federal "marketplace fairness" laws Walmart had long pushed. In fact, Amazon joined the lobbying coalition to pass such legislation, which would force all online retailers to collect sales tax on every sale and remit it to the state of the buyer. This is a huge compliance burden for smaller retailers but no big deal for Amazon. Also smaller retailers, with no network of warehouses, are not required under current law to collect sales taxes, and Amazon didn't like that. Pass the Marketplace Fairness Act, and bam—you impose a big burden on Amazon's smaller competitors.
  - diminoten 8y ago
    I want to talk about the article and I'm the one not staying on topic? Sorry, but you're just upset I made a good point (Amazon didn't lobby for this tax law), and are trying to deflect. Not going to work.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - skh 8y ago
      .... tax law they're benefiting from here. I did not read the "from here" part of the comment you originally wrote that I responded to. I thought you asked for examples of Amazon lobbying for tax law changes in general. My mistake. I did not claim that Amazon lobbied for the specific law mentioned in the article though. Indeed I can't because it hasn't. I did give examples of how Amazon has lobbied for other tax law changes. The comment I originally replied to was in regard to "the game". In this case the game being politics and lobbying. The things I wrote about Amazon doing remain true. The complaint isn't against Amazon though. It's rational for them to take advantage of the system in place. The overall point I've made and believe is that the system is not fair and that Amazon has outsized power in the U.S.
      - diminoten 8y ago
        Sure, and I appreciate you recognizing the miscommunication. My point is actually quite well illustrated by your examples. Amazon lobbied its heart out to avoid state taxes on goods sold, and failed. Now in the article you linked, it was spun as some big win for Amazon, but if that's the case, why were they lobbying (unsuccessfully) against it for so long? Lobbying doesn't work, not nearly as well as people think it does. It's easy to assume money makes laws happen, but if you look at the actual quantities involved, it's a relative pittance compared to individual contributions to campaigns, and as much as we pretend like voters are complete sheep, the reality is more complicated. Is corporate lobbying a problem? Definitely. Is is this singular driving force in politics? No.

by skh 8y ago

diminoten 8y ago

My google skills turned up absolutely nothing, and my common sense tells me that you're incorrectly applying a "corporations is bad" heuristic. What'll be fun is trying to watch you prove Amazon lobbied for a law that's older than it is.

skh 8y ago
I mentioned specific areas in which Amazon has lobbied for tax law changes. These specific areas are different than the area of the article in question but the comment that I responded to wasn't talking specifically about the taxes mentioned in the article. That person wrote: Don't hate the player, hate the game. If shit like this bothers you, write your local representatives and ask them to change it. Then you wrote in response to me: Lobbying is not some magical salve you rub on every problem to make the laws say whatever you want. The reality is it's more convenient to pretend you have no power because then it excuses your inaction. Now you seem to want to talk specifically about the taxes mentioned in the article. I think you are not staying on topic. We were never talking about that specific tax law. My Google skills returned this: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-is-wrong-amazon-lobbies-to-expand-internet-taxes https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/trump-is-wrong-amazon-lob... In 2012, facing a slew of these court rulings, Amazon dropped its opposition to the federal "marketplace fairness" laws Walmart had long pushed. In fact, Amazon joined the lobbying coalition to pass such legislation, which would force all online retailers to collect sales tax on every sale and remit it to the state of the buyer. This is a huge compliance burden for smaller retailers but no big deal for Amazon. Also smaller retailers, with no network of warehouses, are not required under current law to collect sales taxes, and Amazon didn't like that. Pass the Marketplace Fairness Act, and bam—you impose a big burden on Amazon's smaller competitors.
- diminoten 8y ago
  I want to talk about the article and I'm the one not staying on topic? Sorry, but you're just upset I made a good point (Amazon didn't lobby for this tax law), and are trying to deflect. Not going to work.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - skh 8y ago
    .... tax law they're benefiting from here. I did not read the "from here" part of the comment you originally wrote that I responded to. I thought you asked for examples of Amazon lobbying for tax law changes in general. My mistake. I did not claim that Amazon lobbied for the specific law mentioned in the article though. Indeed I can't because it hasn't. I did give examples of how Amazon has lobbied for other tax law changes. The comment I originally replied to was in regard to "the game". In this case the game being politics and lobbying. The things I wrote about Amazon doing remain true. The complaint isn't against Amazon though. It's rational for them to take advantage of the system in place. The overall point I've made and believe is that the system is not fair and that Amazon has outsized power in the U.S.
    - diminoten 8y ago
      Sure, and I appreciate you recognizing the miscommunication. My point is actually quite well illustrated by your examples. Amazon lobbied its heart out to avoid state taxes on goods sold, and failed. Now in the article you linked, it was spun as some big win for Amazon, but if that's the case, why were they lobbying (unsuccessfully) against it for so long? Lobbying doesn't work, not nearly as well as people think it does. It's easy to assume money makes laws happen, but if you look at the actual quantities involved, it's a relative pittance compared to individual contributions to campaigns, and as much as we pretend like voters are complete sheep, the reality is more complicated. Is corporate lobbying a problem? Definitely. Is is this singular driving force in politics? No.