6 ms·

Things like this is why Microsoft is still retaining a lot of business-customers which Google will never touch. They care about addressing the customers need f

Things like this is why Microsoft is still retaining a lot of business-customers which Google will never touch. They care about addressing the customers need first and foremost, while Google’s #1 priority will always be tracking and ads. When the EU said processing needed to be done in the EU, Microsoft was fine with that, while Google has been playing nice only on paper. With rulings like this, guess which one will seem more reliable and dependable (from a business POV) for the EU market? Not Google. That’s for sure.

amscanne 8y ago
The article seems to relate only to data handling for Android, so I'm not sure your comparison and conclusions are relevant.
- modzu 8y ago
  op only cites it as an example. but there is empirical evidence -- MS holds enterprise market-share even for products google is otherwise competitive in, and privacy impact is absolutely one of the reasons
  - hunta2097 8y ago
    But everything on GCP is encrypted? If you really want, you can use your own keys end-to-end. I'm satisfied that Google treats adwords and advertising areas of the business differently to business services. Apple, Twitter and many large banks use GCP - do you really think they would do that if Google was snooping at the data? Please back up any claims with evidence.
    - modzu 8y ago
      i should clarify: i dont think google is snooping at enterprise data when there are proper agreements in place -- my comment was only that there is a difference in privacy impact between MS and google i cant share the PIA of my own enterprise but specifically we needed certain guarantees about where data would be stored that MS could make and google could not. that's all.
ipsum2 8y ago
Pretty odd comment, considering Windows 10 does a lot of tracking and ads. > Windows 10 Collects Activity Data Even When Tracking Is Disabled, But You Can Block It https://lifehacker.com/windows-10-collects-activity-data-even-when-tracking-is-1831054394 https://lifehacker.com/windows-10-collects-activity-data-eve... > We also display advertising in some services, and we’d prefer to show you ads you find interesting. https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/windows10privacy https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/windows10privacy And the numerous steps you have to take to improve your privacy: https://github.com/adolfintel/Windows10-Privacy https://github.com/adolfintel/Windows10-Privacy
- lubujackson 8y ago
  I don't see what's odd about the comment. For core philosophy, Google has always about using an algorithm instead of manual labor whenever possible. The mindset they push to developers is always to "think at Google scale". Customer service has 100% been crappy with Google from day 1, and on purpose. This GDPR situation is political and messy and hits them very much in their weak spot. Microsoft came from (and continued to focus on) the business market, which is all about big deals and playing ball. The entire concept of Windows was meant to bridge the business market with the home market and they've had split business/home pricing for most of their products forever. Yes, Microsoft also sucks at privacy and has been evil forever like all of these amorphous businesses that reach their tendrils as far and wide as profitable. But selling ads (and privacy) is just another revenue stream for Microsoft, not their core product. And don't forget that Hacker News' favorite search engine, DDG, is based on Bing. Microsoft doesn't really care about privacy but also doesn't really care about ads - they just want money.
- emn13 8y ago
  As it pertains to this complaint though, those are all seem less relevant than the issue of well... plain non-compliance? I mean, if they didn't even have a DPO... Still, let's not overstate this "recordbreaking" fine. It's not large, at all. It's only of a fraction of profits (not revenue) in France alone. Even if google fully expected to take this hit, it might not have bothered to change its behavior. The fine, by itself, has no impact on google's business. The greater risk, really, is that they've got a record now: if they get caught again, they'll be more likely to suffer more punitive measures that really are relevant to its core business. Also, they come across as slightly incompetent, really: I'm kind of surprised such a huge organization didn't bother to prepare very well. I mean, for some the law might have come as a surprise, but it's not been unannounced, and it sure looks like google - amongst others might even count as the law's raison d'etre. How exactly did they miss that?
VikingCoder 8y ago
Bing operates in China, doesn't it?
bad_user 8y ago
Is this like a cheerleading competition?
laurentl 8y ago
Just to highlight that OP was (rightly) talking about business consumers. As a business, under GDPR I am responsible for the compliance of my subcontractors (which includes Google Cloud or Azure for instance). I read about this Google blunder and I think that I have other sh*t to worry about than how Google is screwing around with my data. On the other hand, Microsoft has demonstrated time and again that they care about their customers’ data. 2 examples: the fight with the DoJ over access to emails stored in Ireland and the fact they subcontract Azure’s operations in Germany to a German company (to avoid having to hand over the keys to the data center to a 3-letter agency: they literally don’t have them).
- tpetry 8y ago
  The german azure location is a joke. Only the most basic services are available, there are so many missing in germany...
  - etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
    Maybe they aren't competing on technical competency but regulatory competency? It's a valid strategy.

amscanne 8y ago

The article seems to relate only to data handling for Android, so I'm not sure your comparison and conclusions are relevant.

modzu 8y ago
op only cites it as an example. but there is empirical evidence -- MS holds enterprise market-share even for products google is otherwise competitive in, and privacy impact is absolutely one of the reasons
- hunta2097 8y ago
  But everything on GCP is encrypted? If you really want, you can use your own keys end-to-end. I'm satisfied that Google treats adwords and advertising areas of the business differently to business services. Apple, Twitter and many large banks use GCP - do you really think they would do that if Google was snooping at the data? Please back up any claims with evidence.
  - modzu 8y ago
    i should clarify: i dont think google is snooping at enterprise data when there are proper agreements in place -- my comment was only that there is a difference in privacy impact between MS and google i cant share the PIA of my own enterprise but specifically we needed certain guarantees about where data would be stored that MS could make and google could not. that's all.

ipsum2 8y ago

Pretty odd comment, considering Windows 10 does a lot of tracking and ads. > Windows 10 Collects Activity Data Even When Tracking Is Disabled, But You Can Block It https://lifehacker.com/windows-10-collects-activity-data-even-when-tracking-is-1831054394 https://lifehacker.com/windows-10-collects-activity-data-eve... > We also display advertising in some services, and we’d prefer to show you ads you find interesting. https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/windows10privacy https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/windows10privacy And the numerous steps you have to take to improve your privacy: https://github.com/adolfintel/Windows10-Privacy https://github.com/adolfintel/Windows10-Privacy

lubujackson 8y ago
I don't see what's odd about the comment. For core philosophy, Google has always about using an algorithm instead of manual labor whenever possible. The mindset they push to developers is always to "think at Google scale". Customer service has 100% been crappy with Google from day 1, and on purpose. This GDPR situation is political and messy and hits them very much in their weak spot. Microsoft came from (and continued to focus on) the business market, which is all about big deals and playing ball. The entire concept of Windows was meant to bridge the business market with the home market and they've had split business/home pricing for most of their products forever. Yes, Microsoft also sucks at privacy and has been evil forever like all of these amorphous businesses that reach their tendrils as far and wide as profitable. But selling ads (and privacy) is just another revenue stream for Microsoft, not their core product. And don't forget that Hacker News' favorite search engine, DDG, is based on Bing. Microsoft doesn't really care about privacy but also doesn't really care about ads - they just want money.
emn13 8y ago
As it pertains to this complaint though, those are all seem less relevant than the issue of well... plain non-compliance? I mean, if they didn't even have a DPO... Still, let's not overstate this "recordbreaking" fine. It's not large, at all. It's only of a fraction of profits (not revenue) in France alone. Even if google fully expected to take this hit, it might not have bothered to change its behavior. The fine, by itself, has no impact on google's business. The greater risk, really, is that they've got a record now: if they get caught again, they'll be more likely to suffer more punitive measures that really are relevant to its core business. Also, they come across as slightly incompetent, really: I'm kind of surprised such a huge organization didn't bother to prepare very well. I mean, for some the law might have come as a surprise, but it's not been unannounced, and it sure looks like google - amongst others might even count as the law's raison d'etre. How exactly did they miss that?

VikingCoder 8y ago

Bing operates in China, doesn't it?

bad_user 8y ago

Is this like a cheerleading competition?

laurentl 8y ago

Just to highlight that OP was (rightly) talking about business consumers. As a business, under GDPR I am responsible for the compliance of my subcontractors (which includes Google Cloud or Azure for instance). I read about this Google blunder and I think that I have other sh*t to worry about than how Google is screwing around with my data. On the other hand, Microsoft has demonstrated time and again that they care about their customers’ data. 2 examples: the fight with the DoJ over access to emails stored in Ireland and the fact they subcontract Azure’s operations in Germany to a German company (to avoid having to hand over the keys to the data center to a 3-letter agency: they literally don’t have them).

tpetry 8y ago
The german azure location is a joke. Only the most basic services are available, there are so many missing in germany...
- etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
  Maybe they aren't competing on technical competency but regulatory competency? It's a valid strategy.