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What if there isn't a pipeline problem? What if there is an actual difference in preference? For example, looking at gender and STEM it seems that [0]: a. Coun

by air7 8y ago

What if there isn't a pipeline problem? What if there is an actual difference in preference? For example, looking at gender and STEM it seems that [0]: a. Countries that push for more gender equality see less women in STEM. b. Girls in school perform just as well as boys in STEM. Also, men are also highly over-represented in low-end jobs such as drivers, construction, mechanics etc [1]. Is that also a sign to a bias/pipeline problem? Should we attempt to strive for diversity in those fields too? [0] https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/ https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more... [1] https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-percentage-women-and-men-each-profession/GBX22YsWl0XaeHghwXfE4H/story.html https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2017/03/06/chart-the-perce...

darawk 8y ago
> What if there isn't a pipeline problem? What if there is an actual difference in preference? To be clear, i'm including 'preference' as a sub-component of 'pipeline problem'. I think it's a cultural open question whether or not we consider this a 'problem'. I think the argument for preference is much stronger on the gender question though, than on the minority question. There's strong psych research indicating preferences against programming for women, but i'm not aware of any for say, African Americans. In the minority case, I suspect it's more of an access/opportunity issue early on, but i'm open to many views of these issues.
- darkpuma 8y ago
  Given the link between tech work and depression, and more generally the link between depression and careers with very little physical activity, I think it's unconscionable to modify the preferences of people who would otherwise prefer to not work in tech. By all means, help people who desire it. By why 'correct' people who don't?
  - darawk 8y ago
    Ya, i'm not a huge fan of 'correcting' people's preferences. I do think it's possible that part of the issue is how women are socialized, and it's also possible part of the issue is how CS is taught. However, I think the lion's share of the variance is explained by biologically innate preferences, and while there could be good arguments for changing those, I don't see any being made at the moment.

by air7 8y ago

darawk 8y ago

> What if there isn't a pipeline problem? What if there is an actual difference in preference? To be clear, i'm including 'preference' as a sub-component of 'pipeline problem'. I think it's a cultural open question whether or not we consider this a 'problem'. I think the argument for preference is much stronger on the gender question though, than on the minority question. There's strong psych research indicating preferences against programming for women, but i'm not aware of any for say, African Americans. In the minority case, I suspect it's more of an access/opportunity issue early on, but i'm open to many views of these issues.

darkpuma 8y ago
Given the link between tech work and depression, and more generally the link between depression and careers with very little physical activity, I think it's unconscionable to modify the preferences of people who would otherwise prefer to not work in tech. By all means, help people who desire it. By why 'correct' people who don't?
- darawk 8y ago
  Ya, i'm not a huge fan of 'correcting' people's preferences. I do think it's possible that part of the issue is how women are socialized, and it's also possible part of the issue is how CS is taught. However, I think the lion's share of the variance is explained by biologically innate preferences, and while there could be good arguments for changing those, I don't see any being made at the moment.