5 ms·

But, you gotta understand that's for the first 3 years only and the consumer reports is only for the first 10 years. Once you get beyond 10 years, any mechanic

But, you gotta understand that's for the first 3 years only and the consumer reports is only for the first 10 years. Once you get beyond 10 years, any mechanic will tell you the European cars are absolute garbage. Especially BMW, Audi and Mercedes will self destruct at some point after 10 years. And those parts cost a heck of a lot more than non-luxury brands. Sometimes, they won't even sell you a part by its own piece so you have to buy the whole assembly for 1000$ even if all you need is a tiny part that's supposed to cost no more than 50$.

headmelted 8y ago
Or dare I say anything made by PSA. Very tempting cars with some of the nicest tech you'll find anywhere for as long as it stays working..
kenhwang 8y ago
You're conflating cost of ownership with frequency of issues (reliability). The Germans don't break often, but when they do, it'll cost a bunch. American cars break continuously, but it's cheap and easy to fix.
- amyjess 8y ago
  Also, Americans and Germans have different definitions of "reliable". Americans define "reliable" as "runs forever on zero maintenance". Germans define "reliable" as "runs forever as long as you stick to strict maintenance schedules".
  - rjplatte 8y ago
    I like the antifragile definition more. Go ahead and try to kill a 2008 Crown Vic. :)
    - njarboe 8y ago
      Your car gets better the more you abuse it? Could be true if you replace broken parts with better ones.
- davio 8y ago
  Google "Audi service position" for the visual explanation of German car repair costs
kw71 8y ago
Last quarter I quit my job at one of the world's largest automakers and for twelve years I've had a small business on the side that serves specialist mechanics of all kinds, so I talk to dealership and indy mechanics all the time. I think you need a lot more experience with automobiles before you are qualified to say such things. I have a 22 year old 3 and a 26 year old 5. Neither have ever been in the shop for anything but tires. It's not fair or accurate to lump this in the same bucket as vw or mbz. I have bought quite a few parts from the dealer that cost less than $1, like plastic rivets or clips that I broke in the process of getting to something else. Toyota and VW want almost ten bucks for these sometimes. GM won't sell them to you. But my coolant is cheapest at the mbz dealer. Unlike japanese makes, for anything that people have a need to replace, the original parts are sold on the aftermarket at fair prices. For my toyota, if I want a ball joint, I have to pay three times what it should cost at the dealer parts desk, or deal with junk from the aftermarket - and it's all junk. Datsuns, honda, same boat. Mazda, you're lucky if they even support your car anymore.
- thucydidesofusa 8y ago
  How do you know about parts costs on your BWM if they haven't been in the shop for anything more than tires? The parent comment may have been a little loose with the language but adage is that Japanese cars tend to be the cheapest to keep running. I'm shocked to hear that a 5 series and a 3 series went over 22 years with minimal service, you must have replaced at least a cooling system? Conversely, if someone tells us they're driving a 90s Camry, it's very plausible they're telling you the truth. Your Toyota's ball joints may cost more at the dealer service desk, but you can pretty routinely find a huge discount buying from a dealer online. There used to be a Lexus dealer that did this (Sewell Lexus in Texas IIRC) but Toyota dealers sell Lexus parts on eBay. Additionally a lot of the wear items and longer-lifespan wear items (e.g. alternators, timing belts, wheel bearings) can be purchased from the O.E.M with a bit of research. There's a reason that it's much easier to get old European car parts, and it's easy to source American car parts in America but in the rest of the world they probably have the same problems.
ataturk 8y ago
That hasn't been my experience with BMW so far, but time will tell. I do think the "M" cars are problematic and that BMW overall parts quality has gone through the floor compared to cars built in the 1990s, of which I still own one. The 2013 BMW I have has been very reliable but am awaiting the day it ain't. I'm wealthy enough to just go buy another car off the lot for cash if I want to, though. I look at cars constantly. I would probably buy a Toyota truck if/when this BMW goes to pot. I am keeping my eye on Genesis. I hate cars with CVTs, I will never own one and I don't particularly care how good CVTs become or what, I just think they're trash.

headmelted 8y ago

Or dare I say anything made by PSA. Very tempting cars with some of the nicest tech you'll find anywhere for as long as it stays working..

kenhwang 8y ago

You're conflating cost of ownership with frequency of issues (reliability). The Germans don't break often, but when they do, it'll cost a bunch. American cars break continuously, but it's cheap and easy to fix.

amyjess 8y ago
Also, Americans and Germans have different definitions of "reliable". Americans define "reliable" as "runs forever on zero maintenance". Germans define "reliable" as "runs forever as long as you stick to strict maintenance schedules".
- rjplatte 8y ago
  I like the antifragile definition more. Go ahead and try to kill a 2008 Crown Vic. :)
  - njarboe 8y ago
    Your car gets better the more you abuse it? Could be true if you replace broken parts with better ones.
davio 8y ago
Google "Audi service position" for the visual explanation of German car repair costs

kw71 8y ago

Last quarter I quit my job at one of the world's largest automakers and for twelve years I've had a small business on the side that serves specialist mechanics of all kinds, so I talk to dealership and indy mechanics all the time. I think you need a lot more experience with automobiles before you are qualified to say such things. I have a 22 year old 3 and a 26 year old 5. Neither have ever been in the shop for anything but tires. It's not fair or accurate to lump this in the same bucket as vw or mbz. I have bought quite a few parts from the dealer that cost less than $1, like plastic rivets or clips that I broke in the process of getting to something else. Toyota and VW want almost ten bucks for these sometimes. GM won't sell them to you. But my coolant is cheapest at the mbz dealer. Unlike japanese makes, for anything that people have a need to replace, the original parts are sold on the aftermarket at fair prices. For my toyota, if I want a ball joint, I have to pay three times what it should cost at the dealer parts desk, or deal with junk from the aftermarket - and it's all junk. Datsuns, honda, same boat. Mazda, you're lucky if they even support your car anymore.

thucydidesofusa 8y ago
How do you know about parts costs on your BWM if they haven't been in the shop for anything more than tires? The parent comment may have been a little loose with the language but adage is that Japanese cars tend to be the cheapest to keep running. I'm shocked to hear that a 5 series and a 3 series went over 22 years with minimal service, you must have replaced at least a cooling system? Conversely, if someone tells us they're driving a 90s Camry, it's very plausible they're telling you the truth. Your Toyota's ball joints may cost more at the dealer service desk, but you can pretty routinely find a huge discount buying from a dealer online. There used to be a Lexus dealer that did this (Sewell Lexus in Texas IIRC) but Toyota dealers sell Lexus parts on eBay. Additionally a lot of the wear items and longer-lifespan wear items (e.g. alternators, timing belts, wheel bearings) can be purchased from the O.E.M with a bit of research. There's a reason that it's much easier to get old European car parts, and it's easy to source American car parts in America but in the rest of the world they probably have the same problems.

ataturk 8y ago

That hasn't been my experience with BMW so far, but time will tell. I do think the "M" cars are problematic and that BMW overall parts quality has gone through the floor compared to cars built in the 1990s, of which I still own one. The 2013 BMW I have has been very reliable but am awaiting the day it ain't. I'm wealthy enough to just go buy another car off the lot for cash if I want to, though. I look at cars constantly. I would probably buy a Toyota truck if/when this BMW goes to pot. I am keeping my eye on Genesis. I hate cars with CVTs, I will never own one and I don't particularly care how good CVTs become or what, I just think they're trash.