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This article seems to be written using results from a J.D. Power report. J.D. Power's methodology is commonly known to be extremely flawed in that they weigh al
by kenhwang 8y ago
This article seems to be written using results from a J.D. Power report. J.D. Power's methodology is commonly known to be extremely flawed in that they weigh all "issues" equally. So an engine failure is the same severity as Bluetooth not connecting.
Furthermore, tiebreakers are broken in pretty nonsense ways, and many suspect it's by whoever pays the most. For example, they crowned Buick the most dependable brand, but by their own ratings, both Lexus and Porsche scored higher.
If you rank by only mechanical dependability by their own numbers, the ranking is as follows (alphabetical w/in tiers):
10: Lexus, Toyota
9: BMW, Buick, Chevrolet, Hyundai, Infiniti, Kia, Lincoln, Mazda, Mercedes, Nissan, Porsche
8: Audi, Ford, Honda, Jaguar, Mini, Subaru, Volkswagen, Volvo
7: Acura, Cadillac, Dodge, Fiat, GMC, Mitsubishi, Ram
5: Chrysler, Jeep, Land Rover.
So the old adage still holds true for mechanical reliability, Japanese > German/European > American/British.
Also, the luxury brand of an automaker falls pretty damn close to where the non-luxury brand lands: Lexus/Toyota, Buick/Chevy, Hyundai/Kia, Infiniti/Nissan, Audi/Volkswagen, Cadillac/GMC, Fiat/Dodge/Ram, Chrysler/Jeep. Which would make sense since they share mechanical parts, but not infotainment/luxury features. When infotainment/luxury features are factored into the dependability score, it leads to the conclusion the article is trying to draw.
- headmelted 8y agoGiven that a Lexus is a fancy Toyota, this doesn't surprise. I had it explained to me once by a MOT tester (a safety and emissions test in the UK that cars more than four years old must undergo annually) while my old Corolla was on the ramp that Toyota's process basically involves hardening parts from the last model for the most popular defects, with as little re-design work of the internal components between generations as possible. I have no idea if the chap knew what he was talking about or not but it would certainly seem to stand up to my own anecdotal scrutiny - the car is 18 years old and still drives like new (it stayed in the extended family), which is more than can be said for the Renault that replaced it >:-(
- thorwasdfasdf 8y agoToyotas are extremely reliably, especially in the long term. In the long term, toyotas beat anything out there even hondas.
- iambateman 8y agoMy 19 year old Toyota agrees. It runs just about as well now as it did 10 years ago.
- ivalm 8y agoIf you look at GP, hondas are not particularly reliable by either metric discussed. Even american Chevies rank higher.
- thorwasdfasdf 8y agohonda is having some issues with some of their newer models (too many changes leading to more faults). But, after 10 years, I bet hondas still rank really high.
- kenhwang 8y agoEvery Acura and just about every Honda North America buys is made in USA now. But yes, their latest 1.5T engine has a tendency to grenade itself in cold weather or frequent short trips.
- ip26 8y agoThey always seemed well made but weirdly designed.
- southphillyman 8y agoNot sure what year the shift started but Hondas stopped getting high ratings for reliability some time in the 2000s. I retired my 2002 Civic with 250K miles on it a couple of years ago.
- rjplatte 8y agoMy 315k mile 2005 Prius agrees. I got it, replaced the traction battery, got new struts, and bam, new car. I've had it for 60k miles, and I've spent more on oil changes than any repairs besides the initial outlay.
- potta_coffee 8y agoI have a Subaru beater with ~250k on it, it's going strong. Have had Toyotas with almost 300k miles on them before selling the car for ~1k bucks. I love Japanese cars. I have a Dodge Caravan, at 140k miles the thing is about ready for the junk pile.
- shadowbannedtoo 8y agoYea, older Toyotas are really dependable. Late 80's, and early 90's are dead simple. Make sure it's a manual tranny. I'm in the process of buying a newer car/truck for a family member, and it's depressing. So many sensors, and computers that dealership mechanics barely comprehend. I understand it's for emissions, but so many of those sensors are for comfort systems, and selling gizmos. The problem being is when they malfunction. A dealership mechanic will not tell a customer we are basically learning on your new computer on wheels, but they put that in the price to fix. I went to automotive school in the ninties, and these new vechicles still scare me. My trusty Snap-on Mt2500 is practically useless on newer vechicles. And there will ge the guy whom claims, "I just plug a scan tool in, and that lovely system (CAN Bus system, and multiple computers), just spit out a PID, and the fix is found." It's just so much more complicated. On a positive note, my New Years resolution is trying to master these new electrical systems. There's a market for a simple vechicle, like older Toyotas. I don't see any company offering a simple vechicle? And yes, I understand emissions are a problem, but it doesn't seem like an impossible problem to get a manual four banger, with just the basics on the market. And I won't get started on automatic transmission problems. Sorry for the rant.
- rms25 8y agolol simple vehicle? maybe a lada niva (not sold in the US I think?) nothing fancy but easy to fix
- potta_coffee 8y agoI wish vehicles like that were available in the US. I'm afraid the market for them might be tiny. Americans often view their cars as an extension of themselves and their lifestyle rather than a utility.
- thorwasdfasdf 8y agoBut, you gotta understand that's for the first 3 years only and the consumer reports is only for the first 10 years. Once you get beyond 10 years, any mechanic will tell you the European cars are absolute garbage. Especially BMW, Audi and Mercedes will self destruct at some point after 10 years. And those parts cost a heck of a lot more than non-luxury brands. Sometimes, they won't even sell you a part by its own piece so you have to buy the whole assembly for 1000$ even if all you need is a tiny part that's supposed to cost no more than 50$.
- headmelted 8y agoOr dare I say anything made by PSA. Very tempting cars with some of the nicest tech you'll find anywhere for as long as it stays working..
- kenhwang 8y agoYou're conflating cost of ownership with frequency of issues (reliability). The Germans don't break often, but when they do, it'll cost a bunch. American cars break continuously, but it's cheap and easy to fix.
- amyjess 8y agoAlso, Americans and Germans have different definitions of "reliable". Americans define "reliable" as "runs forever on zero maintenance". Germans define "reliable" as "runs forever as long as you stick to strict maintenance schedules".
- dragonwriter 8y ago> So the old adage still holds true for mechanical reliability, Japanese > German/European > American/British Or not. Buick/Chevy/Lincoln > Audi/VW > Mitsubishi/Acura
- dsfyu404ed 8y agoReliability variation between models > reliability variation between brands. Generally speaking cheap disposable appliance cars are cheap and disposable. OEMs put much more effort into their flagship products and the products that define their brand image. Also just a friendly reminder that owner demographics have a large effect on reliability over the kind of 5+yr timeline many commenters here seem to be talking in. The wealthier the owner the better the vehicle is treated (at a statistical level, we all know one or two rich guys who never change their oil). Rich people years vs poor people years is like highway miles vs city miles.
- MikeCapone 8y agoI don't know. High-volume cheap cars can certainly be more reliable than low volume, expensive high-end cars, simply because that's how manufacturing works. Corollas and Civics can last forever.
- tgeorge 8y agoI thought Fiat stood for Fix It Again Tony?
- kenhwang 8y agoBroke my waterpump. Lots of trouble usually serious.