I think PG's definition of The Hacker Culture is not quite the same as ESR's definition. ESR's definition falls more in the kernel and system tools end of hack

I think PG's definition of The Hacker Culture is not quite the same as ESR's definition. ESR's definition falls more in the kernel and system tools end of hackerdom, where the only users are other hackers. PG's definition extends to products and applications and generally stuff where the users are not necessarily hackers. By ESR's definition, Apple is not hackerly at all. By PG's definition, they are very hackerly.