4 ms·

In Hollywood that’s ... complex. There’s nothing stopping you from filming a production with non-IATSE (or any other union) labor, but you wouldn’t be able to g

In Hollywood that’s ... complex. There’s nothing stopping you from filming a production with non-IATSE (or any other union) labor, but you wouldn’t be able to get union labor or “above the line” union talent (actors, writers, directors, etc). (In practice, it’s not quite that simple, especially given the ubiquity of international shoots and that many indie filmmakers see even the ultra-low budget SAG-AFTRA sheets as unrealistic, but the basic rule holds.) So, in the video game industry a “global rule one” scenario would see a nonconforming studio unable to hire experienced and unionized programmers, artists, QA, or even SAG-AFTRA actors or AFM musicians. This wouldn’t be so much an issue for indie developers, but it would do a number on studios who depend on high-profile vocal talent as well as experienced developers, let alone tie-in games that trade on actors’ likenesses.

StillBored 8y ago
Given the voice talent, maybe the key to this is to get the core artists accepted by the IATSE, or some kind of subunion. That said, its really hard to imagine any union growth given 27 states in the US have right to work laws (aka right-to-get-laid-off laws). Meaning companies will be free to have layoffs like this independent of union wishes to negotiate such actions.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  Companies should be able to freely lay off people independent of what a Union wishes. The other members of the union should just show solidarity and threaten to quit/protest if a company does that.
hippich 8y ago
So from reading it appears that there are a lot of folks who want to work for a game company, but they are not considered precious, because there are so many of them (this totally baffles me as what I saw in game dev was really hard). But on the other hand, if you standout somehow (experienced?) - you would not face such issue. So why employer would employ "commodity devs" who are part of the union, and why devs, who standout and have a leverage would option to join union?
- jogjayr 8y ago
  > why employer would employ "commodity devs" who are part of the union, and why devs, who standout and have a leverage would option to join union? The parent poster answered that question for Hollywood. Union members (and here I'm speaking of SAG-AFTRA, which represents actors) are not allowed to work on non-union productions. Union productions, which encompass almost all major studios, are required to give first preference to union members and only hire non-union members when they are of "essential skill and quality"[1][2]. A non-union member who works on a union production has 30 days to join the union. If they do not join, they can't work on any more union productions. Since all the big name stars are union members, big studios have to have union productions in order to be able to hire them. Stars make plenty of money regardless of whether they're in a union or not, because their agents negotiate well for them. But most stars were once unknown and so they had to join the union when starting out, in order to be able to book gigs and build their career. For a millionaire actor union dues aren't a big financial hardship, and union membership doesn't affect how much money they make now. And they need to maintain union membership in order to continue working on union productions with other big stars. A game industry union would probably work the same way. An employer would be forced to give first preference to a "commodity" union dev if they want to be able to employ the star producer or designer on their production. A non-union commodity dev has to take union membership after getting their first job offer else they can't work on another union project. It would also probably mean that game industry jobs become like entertainment industry jobs: you're hired for a specific project and you move on when it's finished - instead of being like the rest of the white-collar workforce's model, where you're hired at a single company and build a career there. 1. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/UnionsInHollywood https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/UnionsInH... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act#Closed_shops https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act#Close...
  - michaelt 8y ago
    The way you explain the Hollywood example, it sounds like the star actors are the linchpin of ensuring junior actors and commodity workers get union benefits - and yet, the star actors don't need the union's negotiating power, as their agents negotiate much better rates. That's all very well for Hollywood, but surely it's a difficult model to kickstart in other industries.

StillBored 8y ago

Given the voice talent, maybe the key to this is to get the core artists accepted by the IATSE, or some kind of subunion. That said, its really hard to imagine any union growth given 27 states in the US have right to work laws (aka right-to-get-laid-off laws). Meaning companies will be free to have layoffs like this independent of union wishes to negotiate such actions.

Mirioron 8y ago
Companies should be able to freely lay off people independent of what a Union wishes. The other members of the union should just show solidarity and threaten to quit/protest if a company does that.

hippich 8y ago

So from reading it appears that there are a lot of folks who want to work for a game company, but they are not considered precious, because there are so many of them (this totally baffles me as what I saw in game dev was really hard). But on the other hand, if you standout somehow (experienced?) - you would not face such issue. So why employer would employ "commodity devs" who are part of the union, and why devs, who standout and have a leverage would option to join union?

jogjayr 8y ago
> why employer would employ "commodity devs" who are part of the union, and why devs, who standout and have a leverage would option to join union? The parent poster answered that question for Hollywood. Union members (and here I'm speaking of SAG-AFTRA, which represents actors) are not allowed to work on non-union productions. Union productions, which encompass almost all major studios, are required to give first preference to union members and only hire non-union members when they are of "essential skill and quality"[1][2]. A non-union member who works on a union production has 30 days to join the union. If they do not join, they can't work on any more union productions. Since all the big name stars are union members, big studios have to have union productions in order to be able to hire them. Stars make plenty of money regardless of whether they're in a union or not, because their agents negotiate well for them. But most stars were once unknown and so they had to join the union when starting out, in order to be able to book gigs and build their career. For a millionaire actor union dues aren't a big financial hardship, and union membership doesn't affect how much money they make now. And they need to maintain union membership in order to continue working on union productions with other big stars. A game industry union would probably work the same way. An employer would be forced to give first preference to a "commodity" union dev if they want to be able to employ the star producer or designer on their production. A non-union commodity dev has to take union membership after getting their first job offer else they can't work on another union project. It would also probably mean that game industry jobs become like entertainment industry jobs: you're hired for a specific project and you move on when it's finished - instead of being like the rest of the white-collar workforce's model, where you're hired at a single company and build a career there. 1. https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/UnionsInHollywood https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/UsefulNotes/UnionsInH... 2. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act#Closed_shops https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taft%E2%80%93Hartley_Act#Close...
- michaelt 8y ago
  The way you explain the Hollywood example, it sounds like the star actors are the linchpin of ensuring junior actors and commodity workers get union benefits - and yet, the star actors don't need the union's negotiating power, as their agents negotiate much better rates. That's all very well for Hollywood, but surely it's a difficult model to kickstart in other industries.