5 ms·

> After fleeing to the United States, Mr. Rodriguez said he had a “nervous breakdown” within a year. He was hospitalized and treated with electroconvulsive ther

by keketi 8y ago

> After fleeing to the United States, Mr. Rodriguez said he had a “nervous breakdown” within a year. He was hospitalized and treated with electroconvulsive therapy. I had no idea that electric shocks are still used to treat mental issues.

chdaniel 8y ago
tbh that bit sounded like a masked torturing thingy going on for him — but hey, hope he's ok
mehwoot 8y ago
They are, and they are one of the most effective single treatments. But usually only when treatment options are exhausted.
rjkennedy98 8y ago
ECT is very commonly used still. Its considered the best treatment for drug-resistant depression.
- king_panic 8y ago
  Not for long (fingers crossed) https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-to-ketamine-wins-endorsement-of-key-advisory-panel/ https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-...
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-... This article seems to paint Ketamine as the worse of the two options for extreme depression.
retsibsi 8y ago
It has that 'barbaric and probably pseudoscientific treatment that we surely abandoned 50 years ago' feel, doesn't it? But I remember reading in this SSC post (at point 7) that it actually works well, and isn't quite as scary as it sounds, although the long-term effects are still uncertain: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-...
- busterarm 8y ago
  Memory loss is a very real problem with ECT. Most professionals downplay this and I find that a bit disgusting.
  - dbspin 8y ago
    This is an anecdote, but I believe relevant. I studied psychology as a mature student. One of the other adult students on my pre-degree course (kind of equivalent to community college I guess) had been a train driver. After two suicides on trains he was driving he'd developed clinical depression and been treated with ECT. This was around 2002, so it would have been the modern 'safer, targeted form of ECT'. Ultimately despite an enormous amount of academic support on our programme he had to drop out. His permanent memory issues - a form of anterograde amnesia, were so bad he couldn't function academically, even at the limited level required to pass the course. Depression is awful, monstrous, indescribably horrific and dehumanising. Losing ones mind, to me that's worse. As Hemingway said after his ECT (right before he committed suicide), "It was a brilliant cure but we lost the patient.”
- robertAngst 8y ago
  EE here. Electricity disrupts nerves. For better or for worse. Its very artificial to help, and not solve the root problem. But, it does 'something'. And in Medical, something has a potential use. Its really grasping at straws to solve this person's problem, but sometimes it helps.
- sandworm101 8y ago
  Labotomies are still done too. They are now more scientific and are used to control things like eplilepsy, but still involve cutting/burning through brain to sever connections.
  - HillRat 8y ago
    Nobody performs lobotomies anymore — haven’t since the ‘70s. You’re thinking of corpus callostomies, which sever hemispherical connections in order to limit the spread of epileptic signals. While they prompt fascinating questions regarding neurological integration of the self, they don’t cause the cognitive, emotional, or behavioral changes lobotomies do.
Gatsky 8y ago
In simple terms, some patients are so unwell with depression they will either never get better or die from malnutrition/debilitation. This justifies the use of ECT, which is conducted under very careful conditions, involving general anaesthesia. It is often effective in a very short time frame.
glbrew 8y ago
It made a huge comeback and is apparently very effective when used properly.
bacon_waffle 8y ago
I know someone who has been through ECT, and I had a similar reaction when I learned about it. It's not a treatment to be taken lightly (this followed a suicide attempt), but at least in their case did cure severe depression in conjunction with more traditional treatment. My very lay-person understanding of the process is that the patient is knocked out with drugs before the electricity is applied - it sounds like a sort of hard reset of memories in the brain. The most obvious and lasting side-effect is memory loss; this person can't remember significant chunks of their life history, so has had to re-learn it from conversations, home movies, photos, etc.
- kencausey 8y ago
  I'm wondering if the use of 'this' in '...this person can't remember...' was a mistake and was meant to be 'the'? I ask because I was looking for, if there was no mistake, confirmation that in your acquaintances specific case significant memory loss occurred.
  - bacon_waffle 8y ago
    Yes, sorry, my writing is terrible... My acquaintance underwent ECT treatment, lost memories, and rebuilt some of them.

by keketi 8y ago

chdaniel 8y ago

tbh that bit sounded like a masked torturing thingy going on for him — but hey, hope he's ok

mehwoot 8y ago

They are, and they are one of the most effective single treatments. But usually only when treatment options are exhausted.

rjkennedy98 8y ago

ECT is very commonly used still. Its considered the best treatment for drug-resistant depression.

king_panic 8y ago
Not for long (fingers crossed) https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-to-ketamine-wins-endorsement-of-key-advisory-panel/ https://www.statnews.com/2019/02/12/depression-drug-related-...
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-... This article seems to paint Ketamine as the worse of the two options for extreme depression.

retsibsi 8y ago

It has that 'barbaric and probably pseudoscientific treatment that we surely abandoned 50 years ago' feel, doesn't it? But I remember reading in this SSC post (at point 7) that it actually works well, and isn't quite as scary as it sounds, although the long-term effects are still uncertain: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-help-if-youre-depressed/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/06/16/things-that-sometimes-...

busterarm 8y ago
Memory loss is a very real problem with ECT. Most professionals downplay this and I find that a bit disgusting.
- dbspin 8y ago
  This is an anecdote, but I believe relevant. I studied psychology as a mature student. One of the other adult students on my pre-degree course (kind of equivalent to community college I guess) had been a train driver. After two suicides on trains he was driving he'd developed clinical depression and been treated with ECT. This was around 2002, so it would have been the modern 'safer, targeted form of ECT'. Ultimately despite an enormous amount of academic support on our programme he had to drop out. His permanent memory issues - a form of anterograde amnesia, were so bad he couldn't function academically, even at the limited level required to pass the course. Depression is awful, monstrous, indescribably horrific and dehumanising. Losing ones mind, to me that's worse. As Hemingway said after his ECT (right before he committed suicide), "It was a brilliant cure but we lost the patient.”
robertAngst 8y ago
EE here. Electricity disrupts nerves. For better or for worse. Its very artificial to help, and not solve the root problem. But, it does 'something'. And in Medical, something has a potential use. Its really grasping at straws to solve this person's problem, but sometimes it helps.
sandworm101 8y ago
Labotomies are still done too. They are now more scientific and are used to control things like eplilepsy, but still involve cutting/burning through brain to sever connections.
- HillRat 8y ago
  Nobody performs lobotomies anymore — haven’t since the ‘70s. You’re thinking of corpus callostomies, which sever hemispherical connections in order to limit the spread of epileptic signals. While they prompt fascinating questions regarding neurological integration of the self, they don’t cause the cognitive, emotional, or behavioral changes lobotomies do.

Gatsky 8y ago

In simple terms, some patients are so unwell with depression they will either never get better or die from malnutrition/debilitation. This justifies the use of ECT, which is conducted under very careful conditions, involving general anaesthesia. It is often effective in a very short time frame.

glbrew 8y ago

It made a huge comeback and is apparently very effective when used properly.

bacon_waffle 8y ago

I know someone who has been through ECT, and I had a similar reaction when I learned about it. It's not a treatment to be taken lightly (this followed a suicide attempt), but at least in their case did cure severe depression in conjunction with more traditional treatment. My very lay-person understanding of the process is that the patient is knocked out with drugs before the electricity is applied - it sounds like a sort of hard reset of memories in the brain. The most obvious and lasting side-effect is memory loss; this person can't remember significant chunks of their life history, so has had to re-learn it from conversations, home movies, photos, etc.

kencausey 8y ago
I'm wondering if the use of 'this' in '...this person can't remember...' was a mistake and was meant to be 'the'? I ask because I was looking for, if there was no mistake, confirmation that in your acquaintances specific case significant memory loss occurred.
- bacon_waffle 8y ago
  Yes, sorry, my writing is terrible... My acquaintance underwent ECT treatment, lost memories, and rebuilt some of them.