4 ms·

I sense an upcoming reckoning against these techniques. Big "SALE!" signs and prices ending in 9 aren't benign: they're malevolent attempts at psychological ma

I sense an upcoming reckoning against these techniques. Big "SALE!" signs and prices ending in 9 aren't benign: they're malevolent attempts at psychological manipulation, and they degrade consumer trust the minute customers recognize them as such. While it's likely impossible to fully counter the bias, I've started clutching my purse strings more tightly since those big glowing signs became less of a declaration of value, and more of a warning that "We don't have your best interests at heart" These techniques work, but only because people view this manipulation as acceptable and commonplace. It would do wonders for consumer confidence (and therefore sales) if stores could give a credible and transparent promise that they make every attempt to inform consumers about the value of their products. Shoppers like myself (busy, uninformed about most categories of things they buy, and unconfident that they can navigate the "DEALS" landscape and come out ahead) would not only shop there: they'd pay a premium to do so.

Nadya 8y ago
>Big "SALE!" signs and prices ending in 9 aren't benign: they're malevolent attempts at psychological manipulation, and they degrade consumer trust the minute customers recognize them as such. While it's likely impossible to fully counter the bias, I've started clutching my purse strings more tightly since those big glowing signs became less of a declaration of value, and more of a warning that "We don't have your best interests at heart" You won't see this - someone has already tried before it and it nearly financially ruined the company. The sad thing is it works and people are easily manipulated. Ron Johnson (former CEO of JC Penney) nearly bankrupted JC Penney with his "fair and square" pricing. Consumers are so used to being manipulated by fake sales and xx.99 pricing that having merchandise advertised without any gimmicks actually results in worse sales. [0] I'm hoping one day people will turn around and be against being psychologically manipulated, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. After all, many people still defend advertisements. A socially accepted form of psychological manipulation that is intended to make you feel worse about yourself and your life unless you buy <product> because <product> will make you happier. The fact people are okay with ads in any context completely baffles me. There are people who are totally fine with being emotionally and psychologically manipulated in return for something being "free". To the point where people in western cultures associate the colors red and yellow with food and don't question why. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/the-real-reason-most-prices-end-in-99-cents-1.4731238 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/the-real-reason-m...
- QuantumGood 8y ago
  He definitely couldn't take a customer base used to and desiring sales and "convert" them to an alternative. To what degree you could seek out and train a customer base to non-sales non-negotiable prices is less clear. I personally like the information provided by ads. It provokes me to do research. I view the first search results I get as similar to ads. It educates me on how to refine my search.
  - mdorazio 8y ago
    I think it is pretty clear that sales do attract customers, though, even when the "sale" price is the same as a non-sale price at some other time during the year. The interactions are complex, though - see [1]. For example, it's a well-used tactic for Amazon sellers to increase their prices slightly and then offer a discount to attract people who aren't tracking price trends since many consumers are somewhat addicted to "getting a deal" regardless of whether the "deal" is in comparison to the true base price of a product or just its current advertised price. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0148296300002149 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01482...
- komali2 8y ago
  He failed because sales for JC Penney fell, but in a sense perhaps he succeeded in preventing people from purchasing clothes they didn't necessarily need?
  - setr 8y ago
    It would have been a success if he had gotten people to pay a premium for the clothing they did need.
krick 8y ago
You assume people have control over their actions. I don't believe this is the case. And I'm not talking about some "lesser people", you know, a "stupid majority", I'm talking about myself. I may think I'm rational, I may feel that in the given moment I'm doing what I want for myself, and, actually, I know quite a lot about all these marketing and psychological tricks, but in the end I'm just a monkey. I will buy more food than I need if I'm shopping hungry and w/o a list, I'll notice pretty packaging first, and even though the more subtle and complicated psychological tricks get, the less predictable the behavior is, they still essentially work. If 29.99 pricing tag wouldn't bring wholesalers more money than 30.00 pricing tag, they would sell it for 30.00.
zem 8y ago
cory doctorow had a good piece on our "mental immune system": https://locusmag.com/2018/01/cory-doctorow-persuasion-adaptation-and-the-arms-race-for-your-attention/ https://locusmag.com/2018/01/cory-doctorow-persuasion-adapta...
QuantumGood 8y ago
Previous discussions, per @dang: 2012: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4370904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4370904 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5435862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5435862
JohnFen 8y ago
> I've started clutching my purse strings more tightly since those big glowing signs became less of a declaration of value, and more of a warning that "We don't have your best interests at heart" This is how I started viewing that decades ago. I have learned to become very suspicious of "sales", and the louder the deal is shouted, the more suspicious I become. I think of it as similar to the "chandelier rule" in business (when you're being pitched a deal, the larger the chandelier in the room, the worse the deal is for you.)

Nadya 8y ago

>Big "SALE!" signs and prices ending in 9 aren't benign: they're malevolent attempts at psychological manipulation, and they degrade consumer trust the minute customers recognize them as such. While it's likely impossible to fully counter the bias, I've started clutching my purse strings more tightly since those big glowing signs became less of a declaration of value, and more of a warning that "We don't have your best interests at heart" You won't see this - someone has already tried before it and it nearly financially ruined the company. The sad thing is it works and people are easily manipulated. Ron Johnson (former CEO of JC Penney) nearly bankrupted JC Penney with his "fair and square" pricing. Consumers are so used to being manipulated by fake sales and xx.99 pricing that having merchandise advertised without any gimmicks actually results in worse sales. [0] I'm hoping one day people will turn around and be against being psychologically manipulated, but I don't see it happening anytime soon. After all, many people still defend advertisements. A socially accepted form of psychological manipulation that is intended to make you feel worse about yourself and your life unless you buy <product> because <product> will make you happier. The fact people are okay with ads in any context completely baffles me. There are people who are totally fine with being emotionally and psychologically manipulated in return for something being "free". To the point where people in western cultures associate the colors red and yellow with food and don't question why. [0] https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/the-real-reason-most-prices-end-in-99-cents-1.4731238 https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence/the-real-reason-m...

QuantumGood 8y ago
He definitely couldn't take a customer base used to and desiring sales and "convert" them to an alternative. To what degree you could seek out and train a customer base to non-sales non-negotiable prices is less clear. I personally like the information provided by ads. It provokes me to do research. I view the first search results I get as similar to ads. It educates me on how to refine my search.
- mdorazio 8y ago
  I think it is pretty clear that sales do attract customers, though, even when the "sale" price is the same as a non-sale price at some other time during the year. The interactions are complex, though - see [1]. For example, it's a well-used tactic for Amazon sellers to increase their prices slightly and then offer a discount to attract people who aren't tracking price trends since many consumers are somewhat addicted to "getting a deal" regardless of whether the "deal" is in comparison to the true base price of a product or just its current advertised price. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0148296300002149 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S01482...
komali2 8y ago
He failed because sales for JC Penney fell, but in a sense perhaps he succeeded in preventing people from purchasing clothes they didn't necessarily need?
- setr 8y ago
  It would have been a success if he had gotten people to pay a premium for the clothing they did need.

krick 8y ago

You assume people have control over their actions. I don't believe this is the case. And I'm not talking about some "lesser people", you know, a "stupid majority", I'm talking about myself. I may think I'm rational, I may feel that in the given moment I'm doing what I want for myself, and, actually, I know quite a lot about all these marketing and psychological tricks, but in the end I'm just a monkey. I will buy more food than I need if I'm shopping hungry and w/o a list, I'll notice pretty packaging first, and even though the more subtle and complicated psychological tricks get, the less predictable the behavior is, they still essentially work. If 29.99 pricing tag wouldn't bring wholesalers more money than 30.00 pricing tag, they would sell it for 30.00.

zem 8y ago

cory doctorow had a good piece on our "mental immune system": https://locusmag.com/2018/01/cory-doctorow-persuasion-adaptation-and-the-arms-race-for-your-attention/ https://locusmag.com/2018/01/cory-doctorow-persuasion-adapta...

QuantumGood 8y ago

Previous discussions, per @dang: 2012: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4370904 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4370904 2013: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5435862 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5435862

JohnFen 8y ago

> I've started clutching my purse strings more tightly since those big glowing signs became less of a declaration of value, and more of a warning that "We don't have your best interests at heart" This is how I started viewing that decades ago. I have learned to become very suspicious of "sales", and the louder the deal is shouted, the more suspicious I become. I think of it as similar to the "chandelier rule" in business (when you're being pitched a deal, the larger the chandelier in the room, the worse the deal is for you.)