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> I think modern society suffers from a lack of life philosophy To me life philosophy is just another way of saying religion. And people in the west I think ar

> I think modern society suffers from a lack of life philosophy To me life philosophy is just another way of saying religion. And people in the west I think are slowly but surely losing their religion. Religions used to give people purpose, now the silent agnostics and atheists need to figure out how to have purpose in their lives. I definitely agree with everything else you're saying though. https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/1690/religion.aspx

sametmax 8y ago
It's hard to pinpoint a definition for religion. Does that imply some kind of practice ? Does that imply veneration ? Does that imply you hold something sacred ? Does that imply you have dogmatic principles ? Does that imply you have a mythology ? Does it mean you need a crowd ? Do you have an external reference driving your conduct, your view of the world, your morality ? And most importantly, should they all resolve around the same source ? Having a life phylosophy doesn't seem to be attached to most of those, and doesn't limit itself to one source. And a lot of those don't seem to necessarly imply a life philosophy. Besides, there is a huge difference between religion as it's designed, and religion as it's lived. Not to mention people of the same religion disagree on the living AND on the design part. But I do agree with you on one point: religion used to answer to those pesky deep life questions for everybody. Now that our source of points of view is much broader, we do miss the easy sense of purpose that was provided by many religions.
- fipple 8y ago
  My working definition of religion is a system that produces easy answers to tough questions. These tough questions can eat away at a person so religion has an important “damping” function in a society, especially with the 90% of the population who need an answer to these questions to stay mentally healrhy
  - sametmax 8y ago
    When I read deep religious thinkers works, I find that those questions are only easily answered by those who didn't scratched the surface. The honest ones are full of doubts. People use religion for the purpose of getting easy answers, but does it mean that the purpose of religion is to give easy answers to people ? Religion can be seen as a cultural phenomenom, or a tool, and it doesn't look like the same thing at all depending which you choose. I'm pretty sure that any tool you give to humans, they will turn it into a cultural phenomenom.
  - tomp 8y ago
    > My working definition of religion is a system that produces easy answers to tough questions Wow, this is really useful. It implies that people who believe in religions, are people who prefer to have an answer, even if it's wrong (even obviously so), rather than be in the ambigous and confusing limbo state of seeking for the correct answer. Similar to how Nigerian Princes intentionally write bad grammar in order to target low-educated people who are more easily scammed.
- jumpman500 8y ago
  Yea good catch I phrased my comment wrong. Saying religion and life philosophy are the same thing is definitely incorrect. Religion usually has life philosophy incorporated in it. But life philosophy definitely doesn't have to have religious features to it.
xamuel 8y ago
I feel like people tend to forget that a religion like Christianity is an entirely new way of framing the universe. Re-discovering Christianity in my 30s was like learning how to read and write for the first time in my life. Activist atheists tend to paint religious folk as just mindless sheep blindly bumping through ceremonies because their parents did. It's similar to how anti-drug education tries to paint, say, cannabis as just this ritual people do out of peer pressure and no other reason. Then, when you actually experience cannabis for yourself, you suddenly realize, oh. People do this for a reason! It's fashionable to talk about how it's so good to be non-judgmental. Come join our rave, bro, everyone here's so open-minded and chill! But what I found is that those groups are just as judgmental as religious folks, only the rules are unwritten. Which makes it that much worse. I love how in proper Christianity, the baseline assumption is that everyone is utterly, hopelessly depraved (yes, even the pastor). Only when you start from a common assumption like that (I find) can you actually start to realize a truly welcoming and non-judgmental society.
- sametmax 8y ago
  Religions, because of their nature, are used to motivate behavior, hold jugement and organise communities. Since behaviors, jugments and communities are subject to dispute, it's only natural people will attack their source and motivation. If you kill somebody, you are hated. If you kill somebody in the name of something, that something is what's been hated.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    > Religions, because of their nature, are used to motivate behavior, hold jugement and organise communities. You're describing culture, not religion. The two are often intertwined but are not the same.
    - sametmax 8y ago
      "We use the weight of a hammer to hit nails" "What you are describing is gravity, it's not the same thing"
- 8y ago
jocoda 8y ago
> life philosophy is just another way of saying religion. Have to disagree. Religion, for most, is imposed. Some come to it by choice, but for most it a given that provides context, community, and a set of rules to operate with. Religion is also dogmatic and static and to make it relevant to modern society often requires lots of obviously inconsistent double think. We're replacing religion with science and the rule of law. These might be poor substitutes for some of the context that religion provides but at least they are mutable and not quite so incoherent. And these slowly adjust. Similarly, a life philosophy is mutable. I find it difficult to believe that you go through life with a static life philosophy. Things change, you experience stuff, and that forces you to change.
- jumpman500 8y ago
  Sorry I phrased my comment wrong. Saying religion and life philosophy are the same thing is definitely incorrect. Religion usually has life philosophy incorporated in it. But life philosophy definitely doesn't have to have religious features to it.
- LordDragonfang 8y ago
  >Religion is also dogmatic and static and to make it relevant to modern society often requires lots of obviously inconsistent double think. I think this is a narrowminded view of religions in general, based solely on how various regressive factions have co-opted certain Abrahamic religions to justify their regressive politics. Other religions exist, and the even the ones in question can be "relevant to modern society" by allowing them the be less "dogmatic and static". Conservatives are drawn to religion because it's traditional, not because accepting religion forces to to be conservative. Plenty of scientific and liberal minded people are able to see the value in a belief in some greater order to the universe that comes with a strong community of individuals with shared beliefs. I recognize that religion has hurt a lot of people, but that doesn't make it useless or inherently evil. >We're replacing religion with science and the rule of law. The good parts of religion, the ones which guide your life philosophy and contribute to your "Sense of Direction and Fulfillment", are totally separate from those two and can easily coexist.
  - deleted 8y ago
pesmhey 8y ago
I’ve been playing around with a thought lately, that religion is to philosophy what engineering is to science - the practical application of otherwise esoteric ideas about the world in which we live.
- sametmax 8y ago
  More like one field of engeenering then. Because they are other ways to apply philosophy.

sametmax 8y ago

It's hard to pinpoint a definition for religion. Does that imply some kind of practice ? Does that imply veneration ? Does that imply you hold something sacred ? Does that imply you have dogmatic principles ? Does that imply you have a mythology ? Does it mean you need a crowd ? Do you have an external reference driving your conduct, your view of the world, your morality ? And most importantly, should they all resolve around the same source ? Having a life phylosophy doesn't seem to be attached to most of those, and doesn't limit itself to one source. And a lot of those don't seem to necessarly imply a life philosophy. Besides, there is a huge difference between religion as it's designed, and religion as it's lived. Not to mention people of the same religion disagree on the living AND on the design part. But I do agree with you on one point: religion used to answer to those pesky deep life questions for everybody. Now that our source of points of view is much broader, we do miss the easy sense of purpose that was provided by many religions.

fipple 8y ago
My working definition of religion is a system that produces easy answers to tough questions. These tough questions can eat away at a person so religion has an important “damping” function in a society, especially with the 90% of the population who need an answer to these questions to stay mentally healrhy
- sametmax 8y ago
  When I read deep religious thinkers works, I find that those questions are only easily answered by those who didn't scratched the surface. The honest ones are full of doubts. People use religion for the purpose of getting easy answers, but does it mean that the purpose of religion is to give easy answers to people ? Religion can be seen as a cultural phenomenom, or a tool, and it doesn't look like the same thing at all depending which you choose. I'm pretty sure that any tool you give to humans, they will turn it into a cultural phenomenom.
- tomp 8y ago
  > My working definition of religion is a system that produces easy answers to tough questions Wow, this is really useful. It implies that people who believe in religions, are people who prefer to have an answer, even if it's wrong (even obviously so), rather than be in the ambigous and confusing limbo state of seeking for the correct answer. Similar to how Nigerian Princes intentionally write bad grammar in order to target low-educated people who are more easily scammed.
jumpman500 8y ago
Yea good catch I phrased my comment wrong. Saying religion and life philosophy are the same thing is definitely incorrect. Religion usually has life philosophy incorporated in it. But life philosophy definitely doesn't have to have religious features to it.

xamuel 8y ago

I feel like people tend to forget that a religion like Christianity is an entirely new way of framing the universe. Re-discovering Christianity in my 30s was like learning how to read and write for the first time in my life. Activist atheists tend to paint religious folk as just mindless sheep blindly bumping through ceremonies because their parents did. It's similar to how anti-drug education tries to paint, say, cannabis as just this ritual people do out of peer pressure and no other reason. Then, when you actually experience cannabis for yourself, you suddenly realize, oh. People do this for a reason! It's fashionable to talk about how it's so good to be non-judgmental. Come join our rave, bro, everyone here's so open-minded and chill! But what I found is that those groups are just as judgmental as religious folks, only the rules are unwritten. Which makes it that much worse. I love how in proper Christianity, the baseline assumption is that everyone is utterly, hopelessly depraved (yes, even the pastor). Only when you start from a common assumption like that (I find) can you actually start to realize a truly welcoming and non-judgmental society.

sametmax 8y ago
Religions, because of their nature, are used to motivate behavior, hold jugement and organise communities. Since behaviors, jugments and communities are subject to dispute, it's only natural people will attack their source and motivation. If you kill somebody, you are hated. If you kill somebody in the name of something, that something is what's been hated.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  > Religions, because of their nature, are used to motivate behavior, hold jugement and organise communities. You're describing culture, not religion. The two are often intertwined but are not the same.
  - sametmax 8y ago
    "We use the weight of a hammer to hit nails" "What you are describing is gravity, it's not the same thing"
8y ago

jocoda 8y ago

> life philosophy is just another way of saying religion. Have to disagree. Religion, for most, is imposed. Some come to it by choice, but for most it a given that provides context, community, and a set of rules to operate with. Religion is also dogmatic and static and to make it relevant to modern society often requires lots of obviously inconsistent double think. We're replacing religion with science and the rule of law. These might be poor substitutes for some of the context that religion provides but at least they are mutable and not quite so incoherent. And these slowly adjust. Similarly, a life philosophy is mutable. I find it difficult to believe that you go through life with a static life philosophy. Things change, you experience stuff, and that forces you to change.

jumpman500 8y ago
Sorry I phrased my comment wrong. Saying religion and life philosophy are the same thing is definitely incorrect. Religion usually has life philosophy incorporated in it. But life philosophy definitely doesn't have to have religious features to it.
LordDragonfang 8y ago
>Religion is also dogmatic and static and to make it relevant to modern society often requires lots of obviously inconsistent double think. I think this is a narrowminded view of religions in general, based solely on how various regressive factions have co-opted certain Abrahamic religions to justify their regressive politics. Other religions exist, and the even the ones in question can be "relevant to modern society" by allowing them the be less "dogmatic and static". Conservatives are drawn to religion because it's traditional, not because accepting religion forces to to be conservative. Plenty of scientific and liberal minded people are able to see the value in a belief in some greater order to the universe that comes with a strong community of individuals with shared beliefs. I recognize that religion has hurt a lot of people, but that doesn't make it useless or inherently evil. >We're replacing religion with science and the rule of law. The good parts of religion, the ones which guide your life philosophy and contribute to your "Sense of Direction and Fulfillment", are totally separate from those two and can easily coexist.
- deleted 8y ago

pesmhey 8y ago

I’ve been playing around with a thought lately, that religion is to philosophy what engineering is to science - the practical application of otherwise esoteric ideas about the world in which we live.

sametmax 8y ago
More like one field of engeenering then. Because they are other ways to apply philosophy.