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> The situation shows further evidence that Apple has been neglecting its responsibility to police the Enterprise Certificate program Really? We're there now?

> The situation shows further evidence that Apple has been neglecting its responsibility to police the Enterprise Certificate program Really? We're there now? It's become Apple's "responsibility" to police every last corner of iOS? I feel like this should not be viewed as "Apple prevents developers from distributing their controversial apps" but rather "Apple prevents users from running controversial apps". If I want to have porn apps on my phone that is my business and no one else's. This debate has been going on since the start of the App store, but now that macOS is steadily becoming more iOS-like and mobile devices are increasingly becoming people's only computing platform, it's becoming more important. For example, Apple removed an app that notified the user whenever a US drone strike caused fatalities because "it was objectionable to some users". There are a lot of objectionable things that are really important. Apple blocks VPN apps in China, for example, and since there's no other way to install apps besides compiling it yourself (which has to be done on a Mac, and even then the code signature expires after a week) there really isn't an option for almost everyone in China. Apple is continually praised for their stance on privacy, but privacy doesn't mean so much when you don't have freedom. And Apple is hostile towards user freedom. https://gawker.com/apple-kills-drone-strike-news-app-for-being-too-crude-1733402994 https://gawker.com/apple-kills-drone-strike-news-app-for-bei...

freedomben 8y ago
> Really? We're there now? It's become Apple's "responsibility" to police every last corner of iOS? I find it disgusting, but really Apple is the only one to blame for that when they started aggressively policing and removing apps, and then marketing to customers based on that. I've heard people on HN state ad nauseam that they love that Apple does this, and that it's one of the reasons they live in the Apple ecosystem. They want to be protected from running apps that might do something objectionable (according to Apple's standard), and are absolutely willing to trade their freedom for some security. I obviously don't agree with this at all (I refer you to Cory Doctorow's War on General Purpose Computing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYXBJOFgeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYXBJOFgeI ) but it is a position I can understand.
- Wowfunhappy 8y ago
  Apple could have it both ways. Keep the App Store, but make sideloading possible—without this stupid certificate program. Make it semi-difficult: maybe users have to tap their version number twenty times or something. Just keep the avenue open. It does not harm your security if other people are able to sideload apps. Apple should just flip the damn switch.
  - MaxBarraclough 8y ago
    I figure part of it is the way malware plays out in PR terms. The headlines would read iOS malware steals private data, not Moron sideloads malware onto iPhone, subverting the appstore they already paid to curate. Personal responsibility doesn't play much of a role in the media response to these incidents, so Apple are well motivated to prevent customers getting root access to their own devices. (To say nothing of the lucrative appstore business model.) I recall sideloaded Android malware getting this kind of silly response. Hardly Google's fault if you go out of your way to compromise your device, but it can still make for bad publicity. As it is, the only 'open avenue' on iPhone is to use the browser.
    - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
      You're not wrong, but it doesn't excuse Apple's actions. Mac OS seems to get along well enough, as does Android despite some occasional bumps in the road. (The Android ecosystem has legitimate security issues regarding un-updatable devices, but that's not relevant here.) We should all be pushing Apple to make their products more open, not asking them for be more stringent. I really do think that if public sentiment shifted in just the right way, we could see Apple allow sideloading. Steve Jobs is gone, and Apple is pushing the iPad as both a PC replacement and a STEM education device. Both efforts are hampered by an inability to run custom apps. This TechCrunch article really bothers me. They are a tech-specific site, and should not be running the type of headlines you describe. The fact that companies break Apple's guidelines is newsworthy and fine to report on, but if Apple deserves any blame here it should be for making this crap necessary in the first place.
- 8y ago
darkpuma 8y ago
> "Really? We're there now? It's become Apple's "responsibility" to police every last corner of iOS?" Yes. I think they took that responsibility on themselves, when they decided their devices would be walled gardens under their purview. If you set out to create a totalitarian utopia and want to take credit for the things that go well, you must also take responsibility for when things go wrong.
buboard 8y ago
> It's become Apple's "responsibility" to police every last corner of iOS? Why yes , i for one am glad to see them being brought to task to police their own walled gardens to death. In fact i 'll be very happy to see those gardens ending up as a relic of a troublesome sad time for tech
Wowfunhappy 8y ago
My thoughts exactly. This is also why I felt somewhat conflicted about the stories of tracking apps last week. If people want to install porn apps on their phones, people should be allowed to install porn apps on their phones. I'm quite fine with Apple shirking their "responsibility" to remove porn apps. It never should have been their responsibility in the first place, and I'd much prefer if they didn't have the ability to police it at all.
hsbaut76 8y ago
I agree. Apple doesn't believe in freedom unless it's curated and prescribed by them. You can see this philosophy in their hardware and software design. Which is now why I use Linux, and so should you.

freedomben 8y ago

> Really? We're there now? It's become Apple's "responsibility" to police every last corner of iOS? I find it disgusting, but really Apple is the only one to blame for that when they started aggressively policing and removing apps, and then marketing to customers based on that. I've heard people on HN state ad nauseam that they love that Apple does this, and that it's one of the reasons they live in the Apple ecosystem. They want to be protected from running apps that might do something objectionable (according to Apple's standard), and are absolutely willing to trade their freedom for some security. I obviously don't agree with this at all (I refer you to Cory Doctorow's War on General Purpose Computing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYXBJOFgeI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbYXBJOFgeI ) but it is a position I can understand.

Wowfunhappy 8y ago
Apple could have it both ways. Keep the App Store, but make sideloading possible—without this stupid certificate program. Make it semi-difficult: maybe users have to tap their version number twenty times or something. Just keep the avenue open. It does not harm your security if other people are able to sideload apps. Apple should just flip the damn switch.
- MaxBarraclough 8y ago
  I figure part of it is the way malware plays out in PR terms. The headlines would read iOS malware steals private data, not Moron sideloads malware onto iPhone, subverting the appstore they already paid to curate. Personal responsibility doesn't play much of a role in the media response to these incidents, so Apple are well motivated to prevent customers getting root access to their own devices. (To say nothing of the lucrative appstore business model.) I recall sideloaded Android malware getting this kind of silly response. Hardly Google's fault if you go out of your way to compromise your device, but it can still make for bad publicity. As it is, the only 'open avenue' on iPhone is to use the browser.
  - Wowfunhappy 8y ago
    You're not wrong, but it doesn't excuse Apple's actions. Mac OS seems to get along well enough, as does Android despite some occasional bumps in the road. (The Android ecosystem has legitimate security issues regarding un-updatable devices, but that's not relevant here.) We should all be pushing Apple to make their products more open, not asking them for be more stringent. I really do think that if public sentiment shifted in just the right way, we could see Apple allow sideloading. Steve Jobs is gone, and Apple is pushing the iPad as both a PC replacement and a STEM education device. Both efforts are hampered by an inability to run custom apps. This TechCrunch article really bothers me. They are a tech-specific site, and should not be running the type of headlines you describe. The fact that companies break Apple's guidelines is newsworthy and fine to report on, but if Apple deserves any blame here it should be for making this crap necessary in the first place.
8y ago

darkpuma 8y ago

> "Really? We're there now? It's become Apple's "responsibility" to police every last corner of iOS?" Yes. I think they took that responsibility on themselves, when they decided their devices would be walled gardens under their purview. If you set out to create a totalitarian utopia and want to take credit for the things that go well, you must also take responsibility for when things go wrong.

buboard 8y ago

> It's become Apple's "responsibility" to police every last corner of iOS? Why yes , i for one am glad to see them being brought to task to police their own walled gardens to death. In fact i 'll be very happy to see those gardens ending up as a relic of a troublesome sad time for tech

Wowfunhappy 8y ago

My thoughts exactly. This is also why I felt somewhat conflicted about the stories of tracking apps last week. If people want to install porn apps on their phones, people should be allowed to install porn apps on their phones. I'm quite fine with Apple shirking their "responsibility" to remove porn apps. It never should have been their responsibility in the first place, and I'd much prefer if they didn't have the ability to police it at all.

hsbaut76 8y ago

I agree. Apple doesn't believe in freedom unless it's curated and prescribed by them. You can see this philosophy in their hardware and software design. Which is now why I use Linux, and so should you.