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I'm torn on this, because while we can always do better, sometimes there's things you just gotta know; this is the best we can do, so far. There's also lots of

I'm torn on this, because while we can always do better, sometimes there's things you just gotta know; this is the best we can do, so far. There's also lots of lazy programmers, that think everything should be easy and intuitive, when in reality they need to do more to understand the tools they have and hone their craft. I refuse to call them bad, because I think most people can reach expert level. Maybe not master or grandmaster, but experts would do.

zaphar 8y ago
Wanting better, safer, and more intuitive tools does not presume that people don't and shouldn't grow. Even with the tools there are plenty of bugs/challenging problems in just understanding and correctly expressing the problem domain in those safe and intuitive tools. The two positions are not incompatible.
- P_I_Staker 8y ago
  Completely agree. That said, we have what we have, and people tend to be very idealistic about these things (favoring one vs. the other). Example, I use Git and Make in C. Others claim "this is the future, everything should be intuitive and graphical". I honestly don't see a way forward for either technology to be more intuitive; a better Git GUIs would be a plus for new users, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm not the type that think "you must do everything at the command line, or you're too stupid to be a decent programmer"; those people do exist. On the flip side, complaints about not being intuitive enough might be met with a shrug from me. Do we really want to use Eclipse and SVN, because you don't want to learn how to use the tooling? (of course, I'd never actually put it like that) Personally, I don't think it's a better solution. I'm not holding my breath for a complete overhaul of Git / Make, and am wary of trying something more novel for now.
  - zaphar 8y ago
    Sure work doesn't need to completely halt while we wait for a perfect solution. But I think that where there are safer and more intuitive tools we should use and promote them.

zaphar 8y ago

Wanting better, safer, and more intuitive tools does not presume that people don't and shouldn't grow. Even with the tools there are plenty of bugs/challenging problems in just understanding and correctly expressing the problem domain in those safe and intuitive tools. The two positions are not incompatible.

P_I_Staker 8y ago
Completely agree. That said, we have what we have, and people tend to be very idealistic about these things (favoring one vs. the other). Example, I use Git and Make in C. Others claim "this is the future, everything should be intuitive and graphical". I honestly don't see a way forward for either technology to be more intuitive; a better Git GUIs would be a plus for new users, but that's just the tip of the iceberg. I'm not the type that think "you must do everything at the command line, or you're too stupid to be a decent programmer"; those people do exist. On the flip side, complaints about not being intuitive enough might be met with a shrug from me. Do we really want to use Eclipse and SVN, because you don't want to learn how to use the tooling? (of course, I'd never actually put it like that) Personally, I don't think it's a better solution. I'm not holding my breath for a complete overhaul of Git / Make, and am wary of trying something more novel for now.
- zaphar 8y ago
  Sure work doesn't need to completely halt while we wait for a perfect solution. But I think that where there are safer and more intuitive tools we should use and promote them.