11 ms·

Whole Mensa concept is based on the abuse of a tool. IQ was deviced as a method to discern - excuse my language - idiots from normies, not to identify geniuses

by fsloth 8y ago

Whole Mensa concept is based on the abuse of a tool. IQ was deviced as a method to discern - excuse my language - idiots from normies, not to identify geniuses from a general population. I don't doubt those that pass Mensa gauntlet are not fast, but a high IQ is a very narrow and barren method define giftedness. The fact that it has been used in that specific usage time and again does not really vindicate it in any way. But ok, so the sampling is of Mensa members in general. That's fine, like the article states the targeted population is difficult to sample as it is.

FabHK 8y ago
The historical motivation for developing that tool has no bearing on its current capabilities and use, though, right?
- fsloth 8y ago
  I.Q. is a statistical tool. It has some correlations when applied to large populations ( i.e criminality correlates negatively with us I.Q. while longevity correlates positively). The problem with this that its value in analyzing a single individual is not so obvious - on an individual level there is so much ‘noise’ that when assessing the capabilities of an individual an I.Q. test should be considered a small advisory component of a larger suite of research. The specific problem is that I.Q. is often used like a horoscope or hand reading to predict an individuals capability to perform in some arbitrary context. So where is it applicable, then? For example, if individual has problems at school and they score low on I.Q. they might be good candidates for some supportive measures. And if they score really high it can lead a psychologist to consider other remedies. This is proper use of the tool - it provides additional data points to a professional. But you shouldn’t use I.Q. alone to filter people in the general context. I know some school systems at least used do this and it’s fucking retarded application of this measure. The fact that the people who thought it was a great idea to use I.Q. as a general filter probably scored high on the scale themselves should tell how much one should trust I.Q scores. To misquote a certain judge - Genius is like hard porn. I don’t know how to define it precisely or mathematically but I know it when I see it.
- ivalm 8y ago
  But there is no reason to think that the IQ test has any capabilities of identifying "smarter" people, especially when talking about outliers (such as top 2% of some test)...

by fsloth 8y ago

FabHK 8y ago

The historical motivation for developing that tool has no bearing on its current capabilities and use, though, right?

fsloth 8y ago
I.Q. is a statistical tool. It has some correlations when applied to large populations ( i.e criminality correlates negatively with us I.Q. while longevity correlates positively). The problem with this that its value in analyzing a single individual is not so obvious - on an individual level there is so much ‘noise’ that when assessing the capabilities of an individual an I.Q. test should be considered a small advisory component of a larger suite of research. The specific problem is that I.Q. is often used like a horoscope or hand reading to predict an individuals capability to perform in some arbitrary context. So where is it applicable, then? For example, if individual has problems at school and they score low on I.Q. they might be good candidates for some supportive measures. And if they score really high it can lead a psychologist to consider other remedies. This is proper use of the tool - it provides additional data points to a professional. But you shouldn’t use I.Q. alone to filter people in the general context. I know some school systems at least used do this and it’s fucking retarded application of this measure. The fact that the people who thought it was a great idea to use I.Q. as a general filter probably scored high on the scale themselves should tell how much one should trust I.Q scores. To misquote a certain judge - Genius is like hard porn. I don’t know how to define it precisely or mathematically but I know it when I see it.
ivalm 8y ago
But there is no reason to think that the IQ test has any capabilities of identifying "smarter" people, especially when talking about outliers (such as top 2% of some test)...