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Where is the line? Breaking into concerts? Breaking into homes? Assault? Murder? Assassinating politicians? Overthrowing elected governments? People brea

Where is the line? Breaking into concerts? Breaking into homes? Assault? Murder? Assassinating politicians? Overthrowing elected governments? People breaking rules is what makes society collapse.

coldtea 8y ago
There's no hard line. All of those things, at different times, can be hugely beneficial and take society forward. Many revolutions involved assault and murder (from the French Revolution to Cromwell). May 68 was all about "overthrowing elected governments". In the punk era "breaking into concerts" was routine -- and a way for poorer kids to afford seeing some bands they liked. (There's a very nice scene in Cinema Paradiso for how kids/teenagers would also break/sneak/into cinemas to watch the film free -- or watch more adult films, a huge part of the old Italian culture, also common in other European countries).
- mbrumlow 8y ago
  So what I hear is if you are poor, then it is okay? Could the poor kids not have mowed lawns, or done handy work around where they live to be able to save up money to buy the ticket properly? But even so, breaking laws and rules simply for enjoyment is not the path to sustained enjoyment. The path to sustained enjoyment is discipline and focus, not instant gratification of breaking the law, which in the long run will probably just make it even harder for said person to experience real enjoyment. I don't buy your argument that because your life is shitty you can do shitty things.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >Could the poor kids not have mowed lawns, or done handy work around where they live to be able to save up money to buy the ticket properly? The rich kids didn't have to do those things, so why should they? That was intended as a lesson in civility, but it's actually a lesson is servility and injustice. Those were just as good kids as any other, they just happened to have born into the "wrong" (ie poor) parents. Hopefully at some point in a future society we would see the less access by those poor kids the same way we see segregation today, and not just ask "why couldn't they mowe lawns" to get the same thing the rich kids got doing nothing. (Though the real answer is that those poor kids in 40s-50s Italy probably already worked much harder than "mowing lawns", and they still had their priorities, like helping feed their families. (Not to mention it was deemed OK by the society and seen with understanding, they weren't stuck-up on commercialization like other cultures).
RobertKerans 8y ago
I think it's pretty reasonable to say kids sneaking into concerts is on the slap on the hand, "yep yep I tried that when I was a kid, wink wink" side of the line, and stealing lots of money from a parent is on the not really acceptable, you ain't talking to your family on pleasant terms again for a _very_ long time side of the line. Neither one is murder and it ain't a slippery slope from those to society coming apart at the seams (I mean, unless you're very socially conservative, then fair enough I guess)

Where is the line? Breaking into concerts? Breaking into homes? Assault? Murder? Assassinating politicians? Overthrowing elected governments? People breaking rules is what makes society collapse.

coldtea 8y ago

There's no hard line. All of those things, at different times, can be hugely beneficial and take society forward. Many revolutions involved assault and murder (from the French Revolution to Cromwell). May 68 was all about "overthrowing elected governments". In the punk era "breaking into concerts" was routine -- and a way for poorer kids to afford seeing some bands they liked. (There's a very nice scene in Cinema Paradiso for how kids/teenagers would also break/sneak/into cinemas to watch the film free -- or watch more adult films, a huge part of the old Italian culture, also common in other European countries).

mbrumlow 8y ago
So what I hear is if you are poor, then it is okay? Could the poor kids not have mowed lawns, or done handy work around where they live to be able to save up money to buy the ticket properly? But even so, breaking laws and rules simply for enjoyment is not the path to sustained enjoyment. The path to sustained enjoyment is discipline and focus, not instant gratification of breaking the law, which in the long run will probably just make it even harder for said person to experience real enjoyment. I don't buy your argument that because your life is shitty you can do shitty things.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >Could the poor kids not have mowed lawns, or done handy work around where they live to be able to save up money to buy the ticket properly? The rich kids didn't have to do those things, so why should they? That was intended as a lesson in civility, but it's actually a lesson is servility and injustice. Those were just as good kids as any other, they just happened to have born into the "wrong" (ie poor) parents. Hopefully at some point in a future society we would see the less access by those poor kids the same way we see segregation today, and not just ask "why couldn't they mowe lawns" to get the same thing the rich kids got doing nothing. (Though the real answer is that those poor kids in 40s-50s Italy probably already worked much harder than "mowing lawns", and they still had their priorities, like helping feed their families. (Not to mention it was deemed OK by the society and seen with understanding, they weren't stuck-up on commercialization like other cultures).

RobertKerans 8y ago

I think it's pretty reasonable to say kids sneaking into concerts is on the slap on the hand, "yep yep I tried that when I was a kid, wink wink" side of the line, and stealing lots of money from a parent is on the not really acceptable, you ain't talking to your family on pleasant terms again for a _very_ long time side of the line. Neither one is murder and it ain't a slippery slope from those to society coming apart at the seams (I mean, unless you're very socially conservative, then fair enough I guess)