3 ms·

They did a lot of things that weren't approved by a standards committee but many of them were genuinely progressive. You can draw a straight line from IE4's DHT

by eli 8y ago

They did a lot of things that weren't approved by a standards committee but many of them were genuinely progressive. You can draw a straight line from IE4's DHTML to today's modern web apps.

bulletsvshumans 8y ago
It's worth remembering that Microsoft had an explicit strategy to abuse standards in order to undermine competitors [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...
cpach 8y ago
I believe a lot of good things has come from Microsoft. But their business practices and extremely dominant position during the late 90s and early 00s was quite unpleasant IMHO. It’s a totally different story now that Satya Nadella is CEO. I have a lot of respect for him and all the good news that has kept coming after he took the helm. I would go as far as to say that he saved Microsoft from eating itself.
- eli 8y ago
  Agree on all points.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  I disagree profoundly, but that's because I work with Windows every day and Nadella has helped turn it into a horrible garbage fire of a product with no QA, user-hostile features, and a bunch of crap nobody asked for. Say what you will about Balmer, but Windows was a better product under him.
  - cpach 8y ago
    I hear ya. Windows 10 has it’s fair share of rough edges, that’s for sure. Personally I prefer MacOS X whenever I can choose freely. When it comes to Windows though, the two main thing that makes me prefer Win 10 over Win 7 are these: a) WSL. For those not familiar with it let’s you run Linux binary executables (in ELF format) natively on W10. (And also on Windows Server 2019.) All (or nearly all?) packages from Ubuntu are available. Super neat, IMHO. b) Lots of handy Powershell cmdlets that are not available in W7. Let’s you configure printers, ACLs, etc via Powershell. So for all its warts I wouldn’t want to revert to W7.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
      Undoubtedly a lot of the base components of Windows are better now, it's just that they're buried under a lot of crap, like the crappy new control panels that are slower and have fewer options, or the start menu that breaks if you sneeze too close to it and contains ads, or the forced updates that break stuff all the time.
      - cpach 8y ago
        Yeah don’t get me started on the Settings app. It’s a total train wreck. It could possibly take Microsoft years to sort it out.
pjc50 8y ago
DHTML: yes, with reservations. ActiveX: no, a security nightmare and intended to tie users to Microsoft. It's still tying some corporate intranet users to IE6 compatibility.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
  But ActiveX is not enabled by default except for trusted zones. It is effectively not a problem.
  - craftyguy 8y ago
    >But ActiveX is not enabled by default except for trusted zones. That (historically) was not always the case...

by eli 8y ago

They did a lot of things that weren't approved by a standards committee but many of them were genuinely progressive. You can draw a straight line from IE4's DHTML to today's modern web apps.

bulletsvshumans 8y ago

It's worth remembering that Microsoft had an explicit strategy to abuse standards in order to undermine competitors [0]. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguish https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis...

cpach 8y ago

I believe a lot of good things has come from Microsoft. But their business practices and extremely dominant position during the late 90s and early 00s was quite unpleasant IMHO. It’s a totally different story now that Satya Nadella is CEO. I have a lot of respect for him and all the good news that has kept coming after he took the helm. I would go as far as to say that he saved Microsoft from eating itself.

eli 8y ago
Agree on all points.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
I disagree profoundly, but that's because I work with Windows every day and Nadella has helped turn it into a horrible garbage fire of a product with no QA, user-hostile features, and a bunch of crap nobody asked for. Say what you will about Balmer, but Windows was a better product under him.
- cpach 8y ago
  I hear ya. Windows 10 has it’s fair share of rough edges, that’s for sure. Personally I prefer MacOS X whenever I can choose freely. When it comes to Windows though, the two main thing that makes me prefer Win 10 over Win 7 are these: a) WSL. For those not familiar with it let’s you run Linux binary executables (in ELF format) natively on W10. (And also on Windows Server 2019.) All (or nearly all?) packages from Ubuntu are available. Super neat, IMHO. b) Lots of handy Powershell cmdlets that are not available in W7. Let’s you configure printers, ACLs, etc via Powershell. So for all its warts I wouldn’t want to revert to W7.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
    Undoubtedly a lot of the base components of Windows are better now, it's just that they're buried under a lot of crap, like the crappy new control panels that are slower and have fewer options, or the start menu that breaks if you sneeze too close to it and contains ads, or the forced updates that break stuff all the time.
    - cpach 8y ago
      Yeah don’t get me started on the Settings app. It’s a total train wreck. It could possibly take Microsoft years to sort it out.

pjc50 8y ago

DHTML: yes, with reservations. ActiveX: no, a security nightmare and intended to tie users to Microsoft. It's still tying some corporate intranet users to IE6 compatibility.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 8y ago
But ActiveX is not enabled by default except for trusted zones. It is effectively not a problem.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  >But ActiveX is not enabled by default except for trusted zones. That (historically) was not always the case...