4 ms·

It's not just Apple and India. As an European it is incredibly annoying to spend money at US "startups" (loosely using this terms, this included businesses that

by zaarn 8y ago

It's not just Apple and India. As an European it is incredibly annoying to spend money at US "startups" (loosely using this terms, this included businesses that had been in operation for 10+ years); I cannot use Giropay, Sofort or SEPA Debit, I have to use a Credit Card. And I can't even use a safe prepaid credit card, I have to use a "real" credit card or else my account gets banned (mailgun did that to me, there was no warning prior and I had to go through support to find out and get unbanned). It really makes one notice how many startups never ever spend a singular thought on overseas markets, or if they did, only about the scary regulations, not the payment systems.

kmlx 8y ago
Honestly, as a fellow European I never heard of those. Not even in passing. But I did try to pay with a card in the Netherlands at the biggest local supermarket: - Visa not accepted - Mastercard not accepted - Amex not accepted They only accepted payment using a local card that I've never heard of. Obviously had no problems with those cards anywhere else in the developed world. Except for Europe. So yeah, Europe needs to get their shit together and start accepting and issuing the same card as the ROW. And then all problems go away.
- zaarn 8y ago
  In Germany there is also the Girocard (formerly EC Card), which largely uses SEPA Debit. Almost all European Countries use some form of SEPA Debit to power their card systems. I don't think Europe needs to get their shit together, I'd rather if POS terminals would accept more payment systems. Credit Cards are not the world currency.
  - kmlx 8y ago
    When you put it in context, there's a handful of people using all kinds of local systems. Then there's hundreds of millions if not billions that use the other well-established systems. Regarding credit cards, very few Visa and Mastercard are credit, especially in Europe.
    - webmobdev 8y ago
      > Regarding credit cards, very few Visa and Mastercard are credit, especially in Europe. I am sure the same is true in India too - most are debit cards. The monopoly, the high fees they charged and the profit ending up in a foreign country was the reason that the indian government launched their own payment and card system. Visa and Mastercard were forced to lower their fees to remain competitive. (And now they are complaining and lobbying the US government to pressurise India to ease their new laws regarding data storage in India).
- Tepix 8y ago
  Credit card transactions have much higher fees. By accepting them you would put a burden on all of your customers who are not using them.
  - kmlx 8y ago
    Debit card transaction fees' are much lower. Still, the solution to this problem would be to charge the client whatever Visa or Mastercard is charging as an extra. A practice I've encountered before in small shops in London, banned across the EU due to clients facing unexpected charges at the end of the process.
    - zaarn 8y ago
      The practise would be legal if the fee was visible before paying with the card, ie you put in the card and then the PoS terminal adjusts the price according to the card type so the cashier can tell you the true final price if it happens. That isn't supported in any PoS system I know of. Not in Europe atleast.
- oblio 8y ago
  > But I did try to pay with a card in the Netherlands at the biggest local supermarket: - Visa not accepted - Mastercard not accepted - Amex not accepted I don't know where you went to, but I've never seen a store that accepts cashless payments and doesn't accept Visa. They might not accepts cards for low amount purchases, due to the fees, but that's another thing.
  - kmlx 8y ago
    Albert Heijn, the largest Dutch supermarket chain does not accept Visa or Mastercard debit cards for any sort of payment.
    - oblio 8y ago
      I've bought stuff there and I don't remember paying cash. I only have Visa debit/credit cards.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- webmobdev 8y ago
  > Europe needs to get their shit together and start accepting and issuing the same card as the ROW. No they don't - there is no reason for a country to accept the payment system of another country. Priority should be to pay using local currency or using the local payment system. Control over one's monetary system is essential to maintain the sovereignty of a nation. As is the right of a citizen to pay (or accept) cash or do transaction using other legal alternatives. (That said, I understand your frustration as we are all complaining about the same thing).

by zaarn 8y ago

kmlx 8y ago

Honestly, as a fellow European I never heard of those. Not even in passing. But I did try to pay with a card in the Netherlands at the biggest local supermarket: - Visa not accepted - Mastercard not accepted - Amex not accepted They only accepted payment using a local card that I've never heard of. Obviously had no problems with those cards anywhere else in the developed world. Except for Europe. So yeah, Europe needs to get their shit together and start accepting and issuing the same card as the ROW. And then all problems go away.

zaarn 8y ago
In Germany there is also the Girocard (formerly EC Card), which largely uses SEPA Debit. Almost all European Countries use some form of SEPA Debit to power their card systems. I don't think Europe needs to get their shit together, I'd rather if POS terminals would accept more payment systems. Credit Cards are not the world currency.
- kmlx 8y ago
  When you put it in context, there's a handful of people using all kinds of local systems. Then there's hundreds of millions if not billions that use the other well-established systems. Regarding credit cards, very few Visa and Mastercard are credit, especially in Europe.
  - webmobdev 8y ago
    > Regarding credit cards, very few Visa and Mastercard are credit, especially in Europe. I am sure the same is true in India too - most are debit cards. The monopoly, the high fees they charged and the profit ending up in a foreign country was the reason that the indian government launched their own payment and card system. Visa and Mastercard were forced to lower their fees to remain competitive. (And now they are complaining and lobbying the US government to pressurise India to ease their new laws regarding data storage in India).
Tepix 8y ago
Credit card transactions have much higher fees. By accepting them you would put a burden on all of your customers who are not using them.
- kmlx 8y ago
  Debit card transaction fees' are much lower. Still, the solution to this problem would be to charge the client whatever Visa or Mastercard is charging as an extra. A practice I've encountered before in small shops in London, banned across the EU due to clients facing unexpected charges at the end of the process.
  - zaarn 8y ago
    The practise would be legal if the fee was visible before paying with the card, ie you put in the card and then the PoS terminal adjusts the price according to the card type so the cashier can tell you the true final price if it happens. That isn't supported in any PoS system I know of. Not in Europe atleast.
oblio 8y ago
> But I did try to pay with a card in the Netherlands at the biggest local supermarket: - Visa not accepted - Mastercard not accepted - Amex not accepted I don't know where you went to, but I've never seen a store that accepts cashless payments and doesn't accept Visa. They might not accepts cards for low amount purchases, due to the fees, but that's another thing.
- kmlx 8y ago
  Albert Heijn, the largest Dutch supermarket chain does not accept Visa or Mastercard debit cards for any sort of payment.
  - oblio 8y ago
    I've bought stuff there and I don't remember paying cash. I only have Visa debit/credit cards.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
webmobdev 8y ago
> Europe needs to get their shit together and start accepting and issuing the same card as the ROW. No they don't - there is no reason for a country to accept the payment system of another country. Priority should be to pay using local currency or using the local payment system. Control over one's monetary system is essential to maintain the sovereignty of a nation. As is the right of a citizen to pay (or accept) cash or do transaction using other legal alternatives. (That said, I understand your frustration as we are all complaining about the same thing).