7 ms·

What happens if a woman goes to passport control without the app? Is she allowed to pass through?

by hopler 8y ago

Crosseye_Jack 8y ago
It’s basically up to the person running passport control that day but first of all they also need their other travel documents like their passport if they are flying internationally. They are often not allowed access to them (Not denied access in any legal sense, but their families will “look after” the documents making it hard to gain access to such documents). But if it’s the case of a foreign national returning home their home country can provide emergency travel documentation and help see the person thought passport control. But if they are not a foreign national, they have little options. They will often (but not always) try and contact the legal guardian of the woman (if they are not already present, but as you said without the app. I presume they are also travelling without their “legal guardian”) and return the women to their family if they are instructed to do so by them.
- pault 8y ago
  Holy shit, I can't believe this is happening in the 21st century.
  - not_a_cop 8y ago
    Technology only gives you gadgetry, not morals. Hasn't anyone in Silicon Valley realized this yet? They're building a huge technological cage to control the masses.
    - klyrs 8y ago
      A coworker literally said this in response to me raising objections over Saudi investment: "I believe Chomsky remarked that socially responsible investing is a contradiction in terms." And I must say, the logic is impeccable: money is incompatible with morals, therefore morals are worthless.
  - maxerickson 8y ago
    Have you just not been paying attention or something?
    - pault 8y ago
      I am aware of the repression of women in SA but I didn't realize they weren't even allowed to leave the country. The addition of real time tracking technology just makes it that much more horrifying. Imagine being a woman trying to escape domestic abuse and being returned to your abuser when you try to flee.
      - maxerickson 8y ago
        I was referring more to your faux astonishment that it is going on. Did you know that genital mutilation is still common in parts of the world? There's global slave traffic. Etc., etc., etc. Of course we are doing a lot better than history if you look at things in a statistical sense, but it takes a pretty insular world view to act astonished that there's shitty stuff going on.
        pault 8y ago
        > faux astonishment > insular world view Is it cold up there on your high horse? I've lived in five countries on three continents. I don't follow Saudi Arabian social issues and was outraged by this particular bit of news. Nothing faux about it. I am aware that sometimes bad things happen to good people. Next time I'll be more jaded and condescending so everyone on the internet will know how worldly I am.
      - cazum 8y ago
        At risk of going well off topic here: The exact situation that you described happens a lot closer to home than you may think.
        cimmanom 8y ago
        But without government-sanctioned apps to track the victims and prevent their escape.
  - rjf72 8y ago
    There's far more egregious things. For instance in Western Africa there remains massive child slavery. The reason this is relevant, as if it wasn't by itself, is that that slavery is then facilitated in bringing you your tasty chocolate treats from companies such as Nestle, Hersheys, Mars, and more. This has been going on for decades and has been brought to court multiple times - the companies always win with generally negligible media coverage. Lack of media coverage notwithstanding, AP did run a new piece on it... 3 days ago. [1] Seafood is another huge industry where you see lots of slavery in its harvesting and production. Incidentally, Nestle also shows up there with their Purina brand. This is not a 'what about chocolate or seafood' but a general frustration I have with people today. They (and this is not directed at you) are grossly misinformed on the state of the world, even though the information is more readily available than ever before. They protest completely inane stuff like it's the end of the world, while completely ignoring the tremendous human rights abuses throughout the world that continue to this very day. If people shined a light on these 24/7 it's possible that something could happen. Even back to Saudi Arabia, not only is there their treatment of women but they still literally crucify people, still literally execute people for "witchcraft and sorcery", and much more. These stories do receive one off coverage, but nothing compared to e.g. a scientist who wore a shirt with some scantily clad girls. Makes all of 'social media justice' look like little more than a bunch of useful idiots. [2] [1] - https://www.apnews.com/571f1acc466f4f89866d31ae094f1601 https://www.apnews.com/571f1acc466f4f89866d31ae094f1601 [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
    - rjf72 8y ago
      In an ironic coincidence it seems that AP has now removed that article from their site with no notice or explanation. It is still available in Google's cache -- swap to text-only or disable scripts to avoid AP's script from killing it on load. This [1] seems to be the same article. That link is also available on archive.org [2] should it be the case that the articles are facing legal threats from the chocolate industry. [1] - https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Child-slave-labor-rampant-in-chocolate-supply-13602395.php https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Chil... [2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20190209104955/https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Child-slave-labor-rampant-in-chocolate-supply-13602395.php https://web.archive.org/web/20190209104955/https://www.mysan...
  - int_19h 8y ago
    This is a country that literally crucifies, beheads, and stones people to death as a form of judicially sanctioned execution. A country where sorcery is a crime on the books (actively enforced, too), and atheists are officially designated to be terrorists. This is a country that simply should not exist.
- jpatokal 8y ago
  Actually, foreign nationals on work visas can't exit even with a valid passport if they don't have an exit permit: https://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Articles/Visas-Permits/Visa-problems https://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Articles/Vis...
setr 8y ago
Im pretty sure it updates something on the government side. If it didn’t, the only value to this app would be for creating an uproar.
lern_too_spel 8y ago
The reporting is pretty clear that the app isn't used to cross the border and is not intended to be used by women at all.

What happens if a woman goes to passport control without the app? Is she allowed to pass through?

by hopler 8y ago

What happens if a woman goes to passport control without the app? Is she allowed to pass through?

It’s basically up to the person running passport control that day but first of all they also need their other travel documents like their passport if they are flying internationally. They are often not allowed access to them (Not denied access in any legal sense, but their families will “look after” the documents making it hard to gain access to such documents). But if it’s the case of a foreign national returning home their home country can provide emergency travel documentation and help see the person thought passport control. But if they are not a foreign national, they have little options. They will often (but not always) try and contact the legal guardian of the woman (if they are not already present, but as you said without the app. I presume they are also travelling without their “legal guardian”) and return the women to their family if they are instructed to do so by them.

pault 8y ago
Holy shit, I can't believe this is happening in the 21st century.
- not_a_cop 8y ago
  Technology only gives you gadgetry, not morals. Hasn't anyone in Silicon Valley realized this yet? They're building a huge technological cage to control the masses.
  - klyrs 8y ago
    A coworker literally said this in response to me raising objections over Saudi investment: "I believe Chomsky remarked that socially responsible investing is a contradiction in terms." And I must say, the logic is impeccable: money is incompatible with morals, therefore morals are worthless.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Have you just not been paying attention or something?
  - pault 8y ago
    I am aware of the repression of women in SA but I didn't realize they weren't even allowed to leave the country. The addition of real time tracking technology just makes it that much more horrifying. Imagine being a woman trying to escape domestic abuse and being returned to your abuser when you try to flee.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      I was referring more to your faux astonishment that it is going on. Did you know that genital mutilation is still common in parts of the world? There's global slave traffic. Etc., etc., etc. Of course we are doing a lot better than history if you look at things in a statistical sense, but it takes a pretty insular world view to act astonished that there's shitty stuff going on.
      - pault 8y ago
        > faux astonishment > insular world view Is it cold up there on your high horse? I've lived in five countries on three continents. I don't follow Saudi Arabian social issues and was outraged by this particular bit of news. Nothing faux about it. I am aware that sometimes bad things happen to good people. Next time I'll be more jaded and condescending so everyone on the internet will know how worldly I am.
    - cazum 8y ago
      At risk of going well off topic here: The exact situation that you described happens a lot closer to home than you may think.
      - cimmanom 8y ago
        But without government-sanctioned apps to track the victims and prevent their escape.
- rjf72 8y ago
  There's far more egregious things. For instance in Western Africa there remains massive child slavery. The reason this is relevant, as if it wasn't by itself, is that that slavery is then facilitated in bringing you your tasty chocolate treats from companies such as Nestle, Hersheys, Mars, and more. This has been going on for decades and has been brought to court multiple times - the companies always win with generally negligible media coverage. Lack of media coverage notwithstanding, AP did run a new piece on it... 3 days ago. [1] Seafood is another huge industry where you see lots of slavery in its harvesting and production. Incidentally, Nestle also shows up there with their Purina brand. This is not a 'what about chocolate or seafood' but a general frustration I have with people today. They (and this is not directed at you) are grossly misinformed on the state of the world, even though the information is more readily available than ever before. They protest completely inane stuff like it's the end of the world, while completely ignoring the tremendous human rights abuses throughout the world that continue to this very day. If people shined a light on these 24/7 it's possible that something could happen. Even back to Saudi Arabia, not only is there their treatment of women but they still literally crucify people, still literally execute people for "witchcraft and sorcery", and much more. These stories do receive one off coverage, but nothing compared to e.g. a scientist who wore a shirt with some scantily clad girls. Makes all of 'social media justice' look like little more than a bunch of useful idiots. [2] [1] - https://www.apnews.com/571f1acc466f4f89866d31ae094f1601 https://www.apnews.com/571f1acc466f4f89866d31ae094f1601 [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
  - rjf72 8y ago
    In an ironic coincidence it seems that AP has now removed that article from their site with no notice or explanation. It is still available in Google's cache -- swap to text-only or disable scripts to avoid AP's script from killing it on load. This [1] seems to be the same article. That link is also available on archive.org [2] should it be the case that the articles are facing legal threats from the chocolate industry. [1] - https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Child-slave-labor-rampant-in-chocolate-supply-13602395.php https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Chil... [2] - https://web.archive.org/web/20190209104955/https://www.mysanantonio.com/opinion/commentary/article/Child-slave-labor-rampant-in-chocolate-supply-13602395.php https://web.archive.org/web/20190209104955/https://www.mysan...
- int_19h 8y ago
  This is a country that literally crucifies, beheads, and stones people to death as a form of judicially sanctioned execution. A country where sorcery is a crime on the books (actively enforced, too), and atheists are officially designated to be terrorists. This is a country that simply should not exist.
jpatokal 8y ago
Actually, foreign nationals on work visas can't exit even with a valid passport if they don't have an exit permit: https://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Articles/Visas-Permits/Visa-problems https://www.justlanded.com/english/Saudi-Arabia/Articles/Vis...

setr 8y ago

Im pretty sure it updates something on the government side. If it didn’t, the only value to this app would be for creating an uproar.

lern_too_spel 8y ago

The reporting is pretty clear that the app isn't used to cross the border and is not intended to be used by women at all.