5 ms·

I was considering buying one. Not any more. I don't have an alexa or google home or any other "smart" home device, and don't plan to get one. The hard part wil

by mises 8y ago

I was considering buying one. Not any more. I don't have an alexa or google home or any other "smart" home device, and don't plan to get one. The hard part will be when they integrate such software into every appliance. Anyone have any idea what those of us concerned about privacy will do then? Also, I still don't get what the point of having a "digital assistant" in all my appliances is. Can anyone explain?

Retric 8y ago
Most mart TV’s for example are DOA at this point. It’s still included becase it’s extremely cheap to do so, but don’t confuse sales with useage. Really, if your selling a 4K TV adding under 10$ in components to make it smart for say 10% of people that who care is an easy choice. Especially, if you can turn this into a secondary revenue source. “The numbers reveal that usage of Samsung Smart TV (Tizen), which is the only platform large enough to break out as a separate category, fell by 16% year-over-year, measured in viewing hours.” https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1533727378 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...
- mises 8y ago
  This was a massive issue the last time I looked at upgrading to a newer tv. I don't want the "smart" bs, because it wears out very quickly. So I'm still on a 20-year-old crt. Also, seriously: why is there no option to drop to a root shell on such devices? I could at least make them work reasonably well for longer periods with access to the operating system. One of the primary concerns: new streaming service comes along -> exclusive content shows up on new streaming service -> 3-yr-old tv doesn't have app published in the "store" for said service -> tv is obsolete even though the panel is fine. If root was available, a modding community would likely develop, allowing longer device life. Why haven't the environmentalists taken this one up? Forget modularity/upgradeability/right to repair etc., let people maintain the hardware that's already working. Massive e-waste problem.
  - dangrossman 8y ago
    Your primary concern is a problem that doesn't exist. A smart TV with an obsolete app store is just a TV. It will still be a TV in 20 years like the one you're using now. If there's a new streaming service it doesn't support, you plug a Chromecast or a Roku or whatever device does support it into the HDMI port. I have a smart TV, but I have never connected it to the internet or used the built-in apps, and will never need to. It's just an ordinary TV that has some extra "inputs" I don't use. I'm never going to have to throw it out because I don't have a root shell... why would I need that?
    - mises 8y ago
      I've got privacy concerns on any "smart" device, particularly one the internals of which I cannot access. I want a panel with ports, not a self-contained computer. I don't understand why manufacturers won't sell me that. On the root shell, I am significantly less comfortable with any device I can't get into to tinker with. Just who I am.
      - dangrossman 8y ago
        Is your concern that an NSA agent will sneak into your house at night to download information the TV secretly stockpiled about how often you watched "HDMI 2"? I'm not able to think of any other "privacy concern" you could have with a non-networked TV. Without connecting to a network, it doesn't matter what software is running on it, it can't share any information with anyone but you. It's as innocuous as your microwave oven. If your microwave right now doesn't have a general purpose computer in it, the one you replace it with in 10 or 20 years probably will, even if all it's doing is running the clock and cooking timers. General purpose computers are so cheap that it makes less and less sense to use more purpose-specific hardware, yet it makes zero sense to give your microwave oven a shell for you to tinker with the software.
        JohnFen 8y ago
        Personally, my concern is that the TV manufacturer will be collecting my usage data and combining it with data collected from all sorts of other places. I'm tracked much more than I can stand as it is, I'm certainly not going to buy anything that will make that situation worse.
warent 8y ago
> "The hard part will be when they integrate such software into every appliance. Anyone have any idea what those of us concerned about privacy will do then?" Purchase appliances that don't have those software integrations. It's not that difficult. The market exists for it, and so the products will always exist for it as well. If you're concerned about other people having smart appliances around you, well, then that should be the least of your worries when companies like Facebook already have a dossier on nearly all of us whether or not we have accounts.
- mises 8y ago
  The market is small. Sad, but true. Joe average just doesn't care. I have this same issue with phones: I want something smaller, thicker, old cpu, cheap, really long battery life. It needs to do a few functions: play audio/video, call, text, email, read, occasionally browse web on mobile data. Not much that fits all of those.
ravenstine 8y ago
They're only useful if you've got Phillips Hue lights installed. Other than that, smart speakers like Alexa and Google Home suck. This is coming from a former enthusiast who quit his job to build a cross-platform framework and SaaS for those things, and owned them in his home for years. I really wanted to like them. Trust is a big issue with these companies, but putting any conspiracy theories aside, they're just not very smart or useful. Under the hood, it's a glorified command-line that's voice activated, which is why spoken commands are often very inflexible; if you have to learn exactly what to say to it, then it's not much of an assistant or better than simply pressing buttons. They are also a form of vendor lock-in, as there's really no standard for writing VUIs(voice user interfaces) like there is for writing web applications. As a developer, you're stuck working with their crippled APIs, and everything has to go through their servers. Recent news around Google has convinced me to leave those devices unplugged for good. It was fun trying to "program" them, but after years both professionally and privately trying to come up with ways to make them useful, I always came up empty handed. If it weren't for the fact that they can control lights really well, I'd say they belong in a garbage can. Either way, they are a gateway to more of the surveillance economy. EDIT: Being able to play Amazon Music or Spotify on them would be useful if those VUIs, years later, still weren't a complete joke. It's nifty being able to ask smart speakers to play music until you've experienced enough times of it not recognizing particular bands or not finding songs/albums that are clearly in the mobile app. They suck.
- mises 8y ago
  Yeah, this is the general sense I got. Only useful if you already have a "smart home", which doesn't actually do very much. And music. But for music, some of us don't want to pay $9.99/mo for a bs streaming service, but already have all our music ripped from cd on a nas.
- hitekker 8y ago
  Thank you for giving it a go and then relating the experience to us. It will probably save another develop from going down the exact same path.

by mises 8y ago

Retric 8y ago

Most mart TV’s for example are DOA at this point. It’s still included becase it’s extremely cheap to do so, but don’t confuse sales with useage. Really, if your selling a 4K TV adding under 10$ in components to make it smart for say 10% of people that who care is an easy choice. Especially, if you can turn this into a secondary revenue source. “The numbers reveal that usage of Samsung Smart TV (Tizen), which is the only platform large enough to break out as a separate category, fell by 16% year-over-year, measured in viewing hours.” https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1533727378 https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=...

mises 8y ago
This was a massive issue the last time I looked at upgrading to a newer tv. I don't want the "smart" bs, because it wears out very quickly. So I'm still on a 20-year-old crt. Also, seriously: why is there no option to drop to a root shell on such devices? I could at least make them work reasonably well for longer periods with access to the operating system. One of the primary concerns: new streaming service comes along -> exclusive content shows up on new streaming service -> 3-yr-old tv doesn't have app published in the "store" for said service -> tv is obsolete even though the panel is fine. If root was available, a modding community would likely develop, allowing longer device life. Why haven't the environmentalists taken this one up? Forget modularity/upgradeability/right to repair etc., let people maintain the hardware that's already working. Massive e-waste problem.
- dangrossman 8y ago
  Your primary concern is a problem that doesn't exist. A smart TV with an obsolete app store is just a TV. It will still be a TV in 20 years like the one you're using now. If there's a new streaming service it doesn't support, you plug a Chromecast or a Roku or whatever device does support it into the HDMI port. I have a smart TV, but I have never connected it to the internet or used the built-in apps, and will never need to. It's just an ordinary TV that has some extra "inputs" I don't use. I'm never going to have to throw it out because I don't have a root shell... why would I need that?
  - mises 8y ago
    I've got privacy concerns on any "smart" device, particularly one the internals of which I cannot access. I want a panel with ports, not a self-contained computer. I don't understand why manufacturers won't sell me that. On the root shell, I am significantly less comfortable with any device I can't get into to tinker with. Just who I am.
    - dangrossman 8y ago
      Is your concern that an NSA agent will sneak into your house at night to download information the TV secretly stockpiled about how often you watched "HDMI 2"? I'm not able to think of any other "privacy concern" you could have with a non-networked TV. Without connecting to a network, it doesn't matter what software is running on it, it can't share any information with anyone but you. It's as innocuous as your microwave oven. If your microwave right now doesn't have a general purpose computer in it, the one you replace it with in 10 or 20 years probably will, even if all it's doing is running the clock and cooking timers. General purpose computers are so cheap that it makes less and less sense to use more purpose-specific hardware, yet it makes zero sense to give your microwave oven a shell for you to tinker with the software.
      - JohnFen 8y ago
        Personally, my concern is that the TV manufacturer will be collecting my usage data and combining it with data collected from all sorts of other places. I'm tracked much more than I can stand as it is, I'm certainly not going to buy anything that will make that situation worse.

warent 8y ago

> "The hard part will be when they integrate such software into every appliance. Anyone have any idea what those of us concerned about privacy will do then?" Purchase appliances that don't have those software integrations. It's not that difficult. The market exists for it, and so the products will always exist for it as well. If you're concerned about other people having smart appliances around you, well, then that should be the least of your worries when companies like Facebook already have a dossier on nearly all of us whether or not we have accounts.

mises 8y ago
The market is small. Sad, but true. Joe average just doesn't care. I have this same issue with phones: I want something smaller, thicker, old cpu, cheap, really long battery life. It needs to do a few functions: play audio/video, call, text, email, read, occasionally browse web on mobile data. Not much that fits all of those.

ravenstine 8y ago

They're only useful if you've got Phillips Hue lights installed. Other than that, smart speakers like Alexa and Google Home suck. This is coming from a former enthusiast who quit his job to build a cross-platform framework and SaaS for those things, and owned them in his home for years. I really wanted to like them. Trust is a big issue with these companies, but putting any conspiracy theories aside, they're just not very smart or useful. Under the hood, it's a glorified command-line that's voice activated, which is why spoken commands are often very inflexible; if you have to learn exactly what to say to it, then it's not much of an assistant or better than simply pressing buttons. They are also a form of vendor lock-in, as there's really no standard for writing VUIs(voice user interfaces) like there is for writing web applications. As a developer, you're stuck working with their crippled APIs, and everything has to go through their servers. Recent news around Google has convinced me to leave those devices unplugged for good. It was fun trying to "program" them, but after years both professionally and privately trying to come up with ways to make them useful, I always came up empty handed. If it weren't for the fact that they can control lights really well, I'd say they belong in a garbage can. Either way, they are a gateway to more of the surveillance economy. EDIT: Being able to play Amazon Music or Spotify on them would be useful if those VUIs, years later, still weren't a complete joke. It's nifty being able to ask smart speakers to play music until you've experienced enough times of it not recognizing particular bands or not finding songs/albums that are clearly in the mobile app. They suck.

mises 8y ago
Yeah, this is the general sense I got. Only useful if you already have a "smart home", which doesn't actually do very much. And music. But for music, some of us don't want to pay $9.99/mo for a bs streaming service, but already have all our music ripped from cd on a nas.
hitekker 8y ago
Thank you for giving it a go and then relating the experience to us. It will probably save another develop from going down the exact same path.