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We need to quit ignoring systemic causes. One primary systemic cause is that people are taking out loans they cannot pay back with their current income. Another

We need to quit ignoring systemic causes. One primary systemic cause is that people are taking out loans they cannot pay back with their current income. Another systemic cause is that institutions are loaning money to people who could not pay the money back at their current income. If a four year degree will cost $50K, and you agree to pay that back at 5% over 20 years, you need to be able to afford a $350/month payment. It can't depend on whether you win the lottery or whether you get a better job. It needs to depend on your current history, just like any other loan. If you can't afford to make a $350/month payment, you can't afford a $50K degree. It's that simple. Ohio State undergrad tuition is < $11000/year. You could replay that at 5% in 10 years for ~$120/month. Working 20 hours/week for $8/hour should cover net around $120/week. That leaves you ~$360/month to pay for food/rent/laundry/bus/whatever. If you can't afford this, you can't afford it. You are not entitled to this. It is not a basic human right. If you can't find an apartment near enough to campus within this price range, this won't work. Don't take out the loan. No matter how much you want the product. For your second year, if you can't make $240/month payments, don't take out another $11000 loan. Or negotiate a 20 year term for $75/month if you can afford last year's $120/month obligation plus this year's $75/month commitment. If you're still working 20 hours/week at $8/hour, maybe you can't afford a second year. I know it stinks, but if you can't afford to pay for college, you can't afford college. That's crummy. That's lousy. That's a lot of things. But it is also reality. Ignoring reality is a big systemic cause.

tschwimmer 8y ago
I think there’s a point where we have to ask ourselves if the systems we as a society designed in the name of efficiency are truly worth it. Do we essentially want to condemn a group of people (people for whom college will be financially untenable) to be a perpetual underclass? To have virtually no chance of improving their standard of living, perhaps for generations? Going to college is one of the largest drivers of social mobility after all. I think this argument can be potentially very paternalistic: you can’t afford to move out of your parent’s house, you can’t afford to have a child, you can’t afford to have any control over your existence. Calling it ‘lousy’ and ‘crummy’ trivialize it in my view. I think better adjectives are ‘existentially depressing’ and horrifying.’ Are we as humans so empatheticly deficient that we cannot say “I don’t really want to give up this money which will be spent on another person’s well being, but I’m not going to fight it”? I pay a lot of money in taxes that I’d prefer to spend on rent or food or healthcare or my family but ultimately I’m satisfied that at least some of it will go to making someone whose life is not very good just a bit better.
- freeopinion 8y ago
  I'll give you 'depressing'. But I reject the notion that college is financially untenable. It is depressingly expensive. It takes a lot of hard work if you aren't independently wealthy. But it is achievable. University of New Mexico costs ~$7400/year in tuition, $22000/year with room/board/books. A high school student working 10 hours/week at $8/hour can earn $2400 in one school year and another $4800 in a summer. Working for two years in high school, plus one summer, then working through their freshman year, they can earn $21600 before they start their sophomore year. If they step it up and work 20 hours/week as a college freshman, they can add another $2400. After taxes, they will come up only slightly short of the mark. That's depressing. But if they write a brief summary of what they did to earn money, how much they need, and how short they are, they will know that they only need $1000 loan or scholarship. There are very few bosses that won't recognize that effort and spring for a $1000 scholarship. Or maybe a parent can help with $500. Or maybe the college will help. Or maybe they can work one more part-time job one summer. The jobs might be menial. You might scrub toilets or bag groceries or scrape old paint off pipes or write html. It's depressing. It's a lot of work. It's doable.

tschwimmer 8y ago

I think there’s a point where we have to ask ourselves if the systems we as a society designed in the name of efficiency are truly worth it. Do we essentially want to condemn a group of people (people for whom college will be financially untenable) to be a perpetual underclass? To have virtually no chance of improving their standard of living, perhaps for generations? Going to college is one of the largest drivers of social mobility after all. I think this argument can be potentially very paternalistic: you can’t afford to move out of your parent’s house, you can’t afford to have a child, you can’t afford to have any control over your existence. Calling it ‘lousy’ and ‘crummy’ trivialize it in my view. I think better adjectives are ‘existentially depressing’ and horrifying.’ Are we as humans so empatheticly deficient that we cannot say “I don’t really want to give up this money which will be spent on another person’s well being, but I’m not going to fight it”? I pay a lot of money in taxes that I’d prefer to spend on rent or food or healthcare or my family but ultimately I’m satisfied that at least some of it will go to making someone whose life is not very good just a bit better.

freeopinion 8y ago
I'll give you 'depressing'. But I reject the notion that college is financially untenable. It is depressingly expensive. It takes a lot of hard work if you aren't independently wealthy. But it is achievable. University of New Mexico costs ~$7400/year in tuition, $22000/year with room/board/books. A high school student working 10 hours/week at $8/hour can earn $2400 in one school year and another $4800 in a summer. Working for two years in high school, plus one summer, then working through their freshman year, they can earn $21600 before they start their sophomore year. If they step it up and work 20 hours/week as a college freshman, they can add another $2400. After taxes, they will come up only slightly short of the mark. That's depressing. But if they write a brief summary of what they did to earn money, how much they need, and how short they are, they will know that they only need $1000 loan or scholarship. There are very few bosses that won't recognize that effort and spring for a $1000 scholarship. Or maybe a parent can help with $500. Or maybe the college will help. Or maybe they can work one more part-time job one summer. The jobs might be menial. You might scrub toilets or bag groceries or scrape old paint off pipes or write html. It's depressing. It's a lot of work. It's doable.