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I attended an elite institution for my grad degree, but attended a state school for undergrad. My parents are also middle-class but reside in a low-income area

I attended an elite institution for my grad degree, but attended a state school for undergrad. My parents are also middle-class but reside in a low-income area of the country. All of this being said, I can attest (anecdotally) to the following: (1) There are low-income, middle-income, and upper-income individuals with student loan debt so large it will never be paid back. I know at least two people in each income bracket. The ones from the upper-income bracket come from families that are well-off, but not so well-off that they are willing to throw away a quarter of their life-savings to payback their child's student loan debt. (2) I know people with $200K+ in student loan debt, but who pursued degrees which have career trajectories not aligned to paying off such debt. (3) Even at elite institutions, and even within different acclaimed grad programs, the 'country club' experience of American undergrad education is creeping in. That is, even at elite grad programs, students are beginning to treat education as secondary and socializing, partying, etc. as primary. Grade inflation, among other signs of systemic institutional rot, is rampant. ---- Having graduated and joined the professional class, as well as being connected to various professional social circles spanning different industries, I can also attest (anecdotally) to witnessing only ~20% of the people I know spending the vast majority of time at their job doing work rather than playing around. To those with limited data on what actually takes place at the mid and senior levels of management in large corporations and firms, I can tell you many stories of people making ~$130-$200K/yr while spending a non-trivial amount of work time shopping on-line, scrolling social media feeds, etc. Take that FWIW.

dba7dba 8y ago
I personally know someone who went to a state college AND a private, expensive private law school (not top tier). All while getting loans/grants. That is 7 years of borrowing. Not graduating from a top tier program meant the lawyer job with really high enough income was out of reach. I just remember hearing that individual amassed about a quarter of a million of US $ in debt. And he will be paying about $2000 - $3000 a month to repay the debt, till he reaches 40ish, provided there is no hiccup in employment. That's enough for mortgage for a really good house in most parts of US. Was it worth it? I think not personally. Not with that kind of loan. And yes, people in mid/senior management spend non trivial time doing non-work related activities on computers behind closed doors of the private offices. I've seen it as a help desk guy.
- anongraddebt 8y ago
  It is a depressing state of affairs. To add on to your point about people playing around behind closed doors: something I've found quite surprising is the remarkable skill and effort that is involved in playing around. I know people who are extraordinarily talented at making themselves look busy and/or productive, but in reality are merely a drag on their company and the wider economy. In one sense, this is a type of fraud the market is supposed to self-correct (i.e. identify and remove). This fraud seems to be increasing. I'm often reminded of certain types of deceit which increased in the Great Depression. It was not uncommon for a husband, say, to dress up and go off to work in the morning, and return home as if he had had a normal day on the 'job'. In reality, he was unemployed, and either looking for work or wasting his time doing something else. This would go on for 1-3 years as the family savings was gradually depleted to nothing, while neighbors and family members thought everything was fine. Then, when the deceit couldn't be sustained, the husband tried operating a mini-golf business (doomed from the start) out of the front yard.
- pnw_hazor 8y ago
  I went to LS later in life, at an expensive third tier school, one of my classmates had already amassed $200K in loans at the same school to get her poly-sci undergrad degree. (I went to school at night/part-time so I could keep my tech salary rolling in to pay for it.) I can't imagine what her final total was -- I was offered over $80K in loans each year even though I had a $100K+ tech salary included in my "financial contribution" in the financial aid formula. I accepted about 10% of the offered loans.

dba7dba 8y ago

I personally know someone who went to a state college AND a private, expensive private law school (not top tier). All while getting loans/grants. That is 7 years of borrowing. Not graduating from a top tier program meant the lawyer job with really high enough income was out of reach. I just remember hearing that individual amassed about a quarter of a million of US $ in debt. And he will be paying about $2000 - $3000 a month to repay the debt, till he reaches 40ish, provided there is no hiccup in employment. That's enough for mortgage for a really good house in most parts of US. Was it worth it? I think not personally. Not with that kind of loan. And yes, people in mid/senior management spend non trivial time doing non-work related activities on computers behind closed doors of the private offices. I've seen it as a help desk guy.

anongraddebt 8y ago
It is a depressing state of affairs. To add on to your point about people playing around behind closed doors: something I've found quite surprising is the remarkable skill and effort that is involved in playing around. I know people who are extraordinarily talented at making themselves look busy and/or productive, but in reality are merely a drag on their company and the wider economy. In one sense, this is a type of fraud the market is supposed to self-correct (i.e. identify and remove). This fraud seems to be increasing. I'm often reminded of certain types of deceit which increased in the Great Depression. It was not uncommon for a husband, say, to dress up and go off to work in the morning, and return home as if he had had a normal day on the 'job'. In reality, he was unemployed, and either looking for work or wasting his time doing something else. This would go on for 1-3 years as the family savings was gradually depleted to nothing, while neighbors and family members thought everything was fine. Then, when the deceit couldn't be sustained, the husband tried operating a mini-golf business (doomed from the start) out of the front yard.
pnw_hazor 8y ago
I went to LS later in life, at an expensive third tier school, one of my classmates had already amassed $200K in loans at the same school to get her poly-sci undergrad degree. (I went to school at night/part-time so I could keep my tech salary rolling in to pay for it.) I can't imagine what her final total was -- I was offered over $80K in loans each year even though I had a $100K+ tech salary included in my "financial contribution" in the financial aid formula. I accepted about 10% of the offered loans.