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It terrifies me how entrenched the Google suite is becoming, and more 'open' APIs will surely further that position. It's the default for most community / cross

It terrifies me how entrenched the Google suite is becoming, and more 'open' APIs will surely further that position. It's the default for most community / cross org collaboration and note-taking in my line of work. A huge amount of stuff gets done in Google docs. And then Google ban your account for some random reason and you're suddenly barred from participating, your voice can no longer be heard, and who knows what happens to your existing contributions. I've not seen it happen first hand, but there are enough stories of people getting frozen out. One alternative, which the Wikimedia community use, is Etherpad. It's ok for text editing but less polished. People talk on HN about moral decisions about Google / Facebooke employees. Should that level of scrutiny apply to 3rd party plugin authors who help consolidate market share?

koheripbal 8y ago
As the CTO for a company that uses GSUITE fairly heavily, the main reason I refrain from adopting Google tech isn't so much the risk of being banned, it is the likelihood that Google will simply abandon core integration points, and will force us to re-build whatever we've implemented in Google.
- afandian 8y ago
  That too. But there's a difference between slow deprecation and being instantaneously cut off. Every time there's a sob story that "Google killed my business by banning my Android app" there's a strong "your fault for relying on Google". But it seems like a blind spot when it comes to e.g. email and collaboration tools. Like Google's too big to fail. While failure at a grand scale is probably unlikely at this point, I can totally see localised failure, such as a missed credit card payment or suspicious activity on an associated account causing absolute mayhem for an organisation.
skybrian 8y ago
A business running GSuite getting banned would indeed be a disaster, but has this ever happened? For personal accounts, what happens if you create another account? It's also a big disruption, but "your voice can no longer be heard" seems exaggerated?
- afandian 8y ago
  In a recent HN thread [0] someone's account was literally guilty by association with no recourse. That process is a black box. Maybe they could blacklist an IP range. Who knows. Let's say we're note-gathering at a conference about metadata formats for international science collaboration. Often we get remote participants who want to join the conversation, and selection bias says that they especially come from developing countries and can't afford to travel. Those constituencies may have vital information which will help to guide a standardization process for shared metadata. If they are blocked, for whatever reason, they may be unable to contribute to the conversation. Maybe their missing voice means that metadata systems add another piece of systematic bias against them and further excludes them. I don't know of any specific examples where this has happened, but the underpinnings are all true. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19124324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19124324
  - skybrian 8y ago
    The part I question is treating blocked/not blocked as a binary thing. There are often workarounds. Some are easier than others. Some people are more capable than others. On the one hand we have people who need lots of hand-holding to use computers at all, and on the other hand there are very capable hackers for whom getting one account blocked by Google is a minor speed bump. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle in terms of resourcefulness. There are many other barriers to getting online, including cost, connectivity, language, and cultural barriers. We're clearly not in a state of equal access. I doubt remaining in Google's good graces is all that big a contribution?
    - afandian 8y ago
      Yeah, at this point pragmatism meets principle. All of the above is true, but given a choice, why choose a platform where you even might have to 'work round it'? Etherpad might look more scary, but it's designed specifically to promote inclusion and liberating data. The thing that I find inspirational about the Wikimedia example is that they embody principles of inclusivity in their tech choices.
- 8y ago

koheripbal 8y ago

As the CTO for a company that uses GSUITE fairly heavily, the main reason I refrain from adopting Google tech isn't so much the risk of being banned, it is the likelihood that Google will simply abandon core integration points, and will force us to re-build whatever we've implemented in Google.

afandian 8y ago
That too. But there's a difference between slow deprecation and being instantaneously cut off. Every time there's a sob story that "Google killed my business by banning my Android app" there's a strong "your fault for relying on Google". But it seems like a blind spot when it comes to e.g. email and collaboration tools. Like Google's too big to fail. While failure at a grand scale is probably unlikely at this point, I can totally see localised failure, such as a missed credit card payment or suspicious activity on an associated account causing absolute mayhem for an organisation.

skybrian 8y ago

A business running GSuite getting banned would indeed be a disaster, but has this ever happened? For personal accounts, what happens if you create another account? It's also a big disruption, but "your voice can no longer be heard" seems exaggerated?

afandian 8y ago
In a recent HN thread [0] someone's account was literally guilty by association with no recourse. That process is a black box. Maybe they could blacklist an IP range. Who knows. Let's say we're note-gathering at a conference about metadata formats for international science collaboration. Often we get remote participants who want to join the conversation, and selection bias says that they especially come from developing countries and can't afford to travel. Those constituencies may have vital information which will help to guide a standardization process for shared metadata. If they are blocked, for whatever reason, they may be unable to contribute to the conversation. Maybe their missing voice means that metadata systems add another piece of systematic bias against them and further excludes them. I don't know of any specific examples where this has happened, but the underpinnings are all true. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19124324 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19124324
- skybrian 8y ago
  The part I question is treating blocked/not blocked as a binary thing. There are often workarounds. Some are easier than others. Some people are more capable than others. On the one hand we have people who need lots of hand-holding to use computers at all, and on the other hand there are very capable hackers for whom getting one account blocked by Google is a minor speed bump. Most of us fall somewhere in the middle in terms of resourcefulness. There are many other barriers to getting online, including cost, connectivity, language, and cultural barriers. We're clearly not in a state of equal access. I doubt remaining in Google's good graces is all that big a contribution?
  - afandian 8y ago
    Yeah, at this point pragmatism meets principle. All of the above is true, but given a choice, why choose a platform where you even might have to 'work round it'? Etherpad might look more scary, but it's designed specifically to promote inclusion and liberating data. The thing that I find inspirational about the Wikimedia example is that they embody principles of inclusivity in their tech choices.
8y ago