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I agree that student loans should be allowed to be defaulted through bankruptcy thus giving the lender a reason to be picky with when they hand them out. Focus

I agree that student loans should be allowed to be defaulted through bankruptcy thus giving the lender a reason to be picky with when they hand them out. Focusing on the individual is useful because they're the ones making the decision to take the loan, thus are in a position to do something about it. No one is forced to take out a loan and the individual is the one who will pay for a poor decision. > not to criticize people for choosing the wrong major. It's not about criticizing, it's about people taking responsibility for their actions and making good decisions. It's just not a good idea to get 50k-100k in debt for a degree that doesn't have market value. It's really not that hard to see it either.

watwut 8y ago
The moment the price go down just a bit due to some individuals deciding not to pay, those exact individuals will be called lazy, not enough risk takers, stupid and blamed for not having as much money as those who stayed.
- malvosenior 8y ago
  That's pretty hypothetical but even if it were true, wouldn't not being in life crippling debt be worth some criticism from ignorant individuals? Personal responsibility isn't always easy and often you have to think for yourself and go against what other people are telling you to do.
  - watwut 8y ago
    People without college degree don't do well. They have less debt, but also less jobs, are paid less and work in worst conditions. And no, they can't all find coding jobs in SV tech companies. And as they conditions were worsening personal responsibility argument was that they should work harder in school. When people talk about personal responsibility they always talk about it all as if debt was only problem. It is not. The other problem is what happens when you dont have degree. We read and shate articles about plight of college educated, because they are our group. Personal responsibility is malleable argument. No matter what they do, it was their lack of personal responsibility. Struggle unemployed without degree? Should have go to school. Struggle with debt? Should not go to school. Somehow not false information (especially in case of private schools whose students are in worat shape and who literally lied to them). Somehow not a fault of system where expensive school makes or break possibilities for ambitious people. Somehow it is not economy, not school.system where professions like doctors study way more years then would be necessary. And people who do worst are the ones who did not finished college but started.
    - malvosenior 8y ago
      > And people who do worst are the ones who did not finished college but started. As one of those people I could not disagree more strongly with your entire statement. Not only do I make a very good living without a degree but I've hired many others without degrees as well. If you can code, you can get a job.
mikeash 8y ago
The lender is the one making the decision to issue the loan, and it’s not a good idea to lend 50k-100k for a degree that doesn’t have market value. As a bonus, lenders can actually be controlled tonsome extent. Why is it more useful to focus on the individual?

watwut 8y ago

The moment the price go down just a bit due to some individuals deciding not to pay, those exact individuals will be called lazy, not enough risk takers, stupid and blamed for not having as much money as those who stayed.

malvosenior 8y ago
That's pretty hypothetical but even if it were true, wouldn't not being in life crippling debt be worth some criticism from ignorant individuals? Personal responsibility isn't always easy and often you have to think for yourself and go against what other people are telling you to do.
- watwut 8y ago
  People without college degree don't do well. They have less debt, but also less jobs, are paid less and work in worst conditions. And no, they can't all find coding jobs in SV tech companies. And as they conditions were worsening personal responsibility argument was that they should work harder in school. When people talk about personal responsibility they always talk about it all as if debt was only problem. It is not. The other problem is what happens when you dont have degree. We read and shate articles about plight of college educated, because they are our group. Personal responsibility is malleable argument. No matter what they do, it was their lack of personal responsibility. Struggle unemployed without degree? Should have go to school. Struggle with debt? Should not go to school. Somehow not false information (especially in case of private schools whose students are in worat shape and who literally lied to them). Somehow not a fault of system where expensive school makes or break possibilities for ambitious people. Somehow it is not economy, not school.system where professions like doctors study way more years then would be necessary. And people who do worst are the ones who did not finished college but started.
  - malvosenior 8y ago
    > And people who do worst are the ones who did not finished college but started. As one of those people I could not disagree more strongly with your entire statement. Not only do I make a very good living without a degree but I've hired many others without degrees as well. If you can code, you can get a job.

mikeash 8y ago

The lender is the one making the decision to issue the loan, and it’s not a good idea to lend 50k-100k for a degree that doesn’t have market value. As a bonus, lenders can actually be controlled tonsome extent. Why is it more useful to focus on the individual?