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I can’t disagree more strongly with this attitude. You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions that are very high co

I can’t disagree more strongly with this attitude. You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions that are very high cost and impact the rest of their lives, then held accountable for them when they make a mistake. This is on top of the fact that in all likelihood both society and their parents and teachers pushed them hard that the only way to succeed in life is to max out on education. Blaming kids for choosing the wrong college is just a symptom of a broken system. How messed up is it that almost the very first decision a person has to make when reaching the age of majority is whether to take on tens of thousands in debt or more?

mattnewton 8y ago
I agree. If student loans weren’t protected from bankruptcy, lenders would be forced to learn the market and would signal to you the unfeasiblity of these choices by setting higher interest rates on loans for different colleges/majors. I think we’ve made the measure of success just the number of college degrees because it was correlated with a middle or upper class lifestyle for so long, but failed to understand the causal relationship there fully.
- dba7dba 8y ago
  Yet another masterpiece work by the fabulously lucrative sector called lobby industry. Lucrative both for the lobbyists themselves and the banks. Bravo.
  - pnw_hazor 8y ago
    And the schools that set the price.
bdcravens 8y ago
If an 18 year old signs for a car loan, they are responsible. If an 18 year old commits a crime, they are responsible.
- landryraccoon 8y ago
  If an 18 year old qualifies for a car loan then defaults the lender deserved it. You can’t default from educational loans, but if you could then you’d be right.
malvosenior 8y ago
> You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions that are very high cost and impact the rest of their lives, then held accountable for them when they make a mistake. Yes, I'm absolutely 100% saying this. We need to bring back the concept of personal responsibility. 18 year olds can go fight in wars, vote and drive. They are fully capable of making informed financial decisions. Basic algebra should be sufficient to see the math isn't going to work in your favor. It's possible it's a generational thing. Boomers burned draft cards, bras, dropped out and most definitely were not listening to their parents at 18. Gen X (my generation) was so disillusioned with the boomers that we ignored literally everything they told us. It's extremely foreign to me to hear the argument: "But our parents told us to go to expensive universities!" The generations prior to this would take that as an anti-command and done the opposite. When you're an adult (which you are at 18) you must take responsibility for yourself.
- brandonmenc 8y ago
  > 18 year olds can go fight in wars, vote and drive. imo, we should probably raise the legal age of adulthood. > They are fully capable of making informed financial decisions. Yet so many of them obviously are not able.
  - smileysteve 8y ago
    There are plenty of older people who don't understand compound interest or progressive tax rates. Imo, consider the opposite, 2 years being an adult in the military or apprenticing at a job before college could provide the experience that sheltered children need.
    - brandonmenc 8y ago
      > consider the opposite, 2 years being an adult in the military or apprenticing at a job before college could provide the experience that sheltered children need. Just my personal opinion, but 20 year olds aren't really adults either. I think we need another legal category that is more than a minor but less than an adult to cover ages approximately 18-24.
wolfgke 8y ago
> You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions that are very high cost and impact the rest of their lives, then held accountable for them when they make a mistake. Perhaps I am too German to understand this problem, since in Germany, nearly every child is taught by their parents that you should only go into debt if you have really, really good reasons (i.e. almost never, except perhaps for buying a house/flat; and in this case it is a mortgage and not a credit). I believe this is really sound financial advice. > Blaming kids for choosing the wrong college is just a symptom of a broken system. Blame just doesn’t work. I think it is right to blame children for ignoring the IMHO sound financial advice (almost) never to take any credit.
- landryraccoon 8y ago
  How much did college cost in Germany? School, like healthcare, is exhorbitantly expensive in the United States.
  - Mirioron 8y ago
    Not every college is free in Germany.
  - wolfgke 8y ago
    > How much did college cost in Germany? Most universities in Germany are public and thus quite cheap. But note that while they are quite good in terms of quality of education, there is hardly any handholding offered. Many Germans say that this is two birds with one stone: 1. Mostly free tertiary education 2. Students learn a lot of self-responsibility So it is a very different system from the one in the US. So it makes much more sense to compare US universities with the few private universities in Germany. Under https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19139246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19139246 I wrote something about that topic. TLDR: If a university does not make an offer that you can pay off your "tuition" by a fixed amount of the salary that you earn in the next 10-15 years after graduating, you should be wary, since this shows that the university does not believe that its respective course of studies will (in average) give a decent salary to its graduates.
smileysteve 8y ago
> You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions Yes, 18 year olds (adults) need to be able to make decisions. If they decide not to go to college, they also need to be able to work. And to clarify, some "kids" emancipate at 16.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  16 year olds can also work, need to file their own tax returns, get a driver's license, are often given cars to use. If they make enough money, they can also start an IRA early.
Mirioron 8y ago
But they don't have to go to college then. They could decide to go to college when they're older. I think that colleges shouldn't admit you unless you have at least a year or two of with experience. This way people would actually know why they are going to college rather than just treading a familiar path.

mattnewton 8y ago

I agree. If student loans weren’t protected from bankruptcy, lenders would be forced to learn the market and would signal to you the unfeasiblity of these choices by setting higher interest rates on loans for different colleges/majors. I think we’ve made the measure of success just the number of college degrees because it was correlated with a middle or upper class lifestyle for so long, but failed to understand the causal relationship there fully.

dba7dba 8y ago
Yet another masterpiece work by the fabulously lucrative sector called lobby industry. Lucrative both for the lobbyists themselves and the banks. Bravo.
- pnw_hazor 8y ago
  And the schools that set the price.

bdcravens 8y ago

If an 18 year old signs for a car loan, they are responsible. If an 18 year old commits a crime, they are responsible.

landryraccoon 8y ago
If an 18 year old qualifies for a car loan then defaults the lender deserved it. You can’t default from educational loans, but if you could then you’d be right.

malvosenior 8y ago

> You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions that are very high cost and impact the rest of their lives, then held accountable for them when they make a mistake. Yes, I'm absolutely 100% saying this. We need to bring back the concept of personal responsibility. 18 year olds can go fight in wars, vote and drive. They are fully capable of making informed financial decisions. Basic algebra should be sufficient to see the math isn't going to work in your favor. It's possible it's a generational thing. Boomers burned draft cards, bras, dropped out and most definitely were not listening to their parents at 18. Gen X (my generation) was so disillusioned with the boomers that we ignored literally everything they told us. It's extremely foreign to me to hear the argument: "But our parents told us to go to expensive universities!" The generations prior to this would take that as an anti-command and done the opposite. When you're an adult (which you are at 18) you must take responsibility for yourself.

brandonmenc 8y ago
> 18 year olds can go fight in wars, vote and drive. imo, we should probably raise the legal age of adulthood. > They are fully capable of making informed financial decisions. Yet so many of them obviously are not able.
- smileysteve 8y ago
  There are plenty of older people who don't understand compound interest or progressive tax rates. Imo, consider the opposite, 2 years being an adult in the military or apprenticing at a job before college could provide the experience that sheltered children need.
  - brandonmenc 8y ago
    > consider the opposite, 2 years being an adult in the military or apprenticing at a job before college could provide the experience that sheltered children need. Just my personal opinion, but 20 year olds aren't really adults either. I think we need another legal category that is more than a minor but less than an adult to cover ages approximately 18-24.

wolfgke 8y ago

> You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions that are very high cost and impact the rest of their lives, then held accountable for them when they make a mistake. Perhaps I am too German to understand this problem, since in Germany, nearly every child is taught by their parents that you should only go into debt if you have really, really good reasons (i.e. almost never, except perhaps for buying a house/flat; and in this case it is a mortgage and not a credit). I believe this is really sound financial advice. > Blaming kids for choosing the wrong college is just a symptom of a broken system. Blame just doesn’t work. I think it is right to blame children for ignoring the IMHO sound financial advice (almost) never to take any credit.

landryraccoon 8y ago
How much did college cost in Germany? School, like healthcare, is exhorbitantly expensive in the United States.
- Mirioron 8y ago
  Not every college is free in Germany.
- wolfgke 8y ago
  > How much did college cost in Germany? Most universities in Germany are public and thus quite cheap. But note that while they are quite good in terms of quality of education, there is hardly any handholding offered. Many Germans say that this is two birds with one stone: 1. Mostly free tertiary education 2. Students learn a lot of self-responsibility So it is a very different system from the one in the US. So it makes much more sense to compare US universities with the few private universities in Germany. Under https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19139246 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19139246 I wrote something about that topic. TLDR: If a university does not make an offer that you can pay off your "tuition" by a fixed amount of the salary that you earn in the next 10-15 years after graduating, you should be wary, since this shows that the university does not believe that its respective course of studies will (in average) give a decent salary to its graduates.

smileysteve 8y ago

> You’re saying that children basically barely out of high school need to make decisions Yes, 18 year olds (adults) need to be able to make decisions. If they decide not to go to college, they also need to be able to work. And to clarify, some "kids" emancipate at 16.

smileysteve 8y ago
16 year olds can also work, need to file their own tax returns, get a driver's license, are often given cars to use. If they make enough money, they can also start an IRA early.

Mirioron 8y ago

But they don't have to go to college then. They could decide to go to college when they're older. I think that colleges shouldn't admit you unless you have at least a year or two of with experience. This way people would actually know why they are going to college rather than just treading a familiar path.