4 ms·

And the other 80% don't possess those things because...?

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
At least partly because when the 20% try to show the 80% that they need these things, the 20% get accused of cultural imperialism for daring to suggest that their values and culture are better than others'.
- moate 8y ago
  The majority of the 20% were born in the top. If the culture they're trying to show us is "be born rich and hoard your wealth with an iron fist" that's not extremely helpful.
  - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
    I was probably born in the top 20%. The culture I inherited was "learn in school, go to college, learn to do something that pays, get a job that pays well, don't waste your money". I definitely wasn't born rich, I haven't inherited at all (yet), and I don't hoard with an iron fist. But thanks for smearing all 20% of us with your slur. It sounds like you don't know much about the bottom of the top 20%.
    - Pfhreak 8y ago
      You don't see the inherited wealth here? The whole infrastructure you've described in your culture was built by previous wealth... > learn in school Easier in a wealthy school. May be impossible or extraordinarily difficult in a low income school. > go to college Easier if you come from a wealthy background. You may have legacy, or financial means to apply to more schools, or ability to take more test prep, etc. > Learn to do something that pays Are wealthy kids more likely to have mentors or connections in their network due to their parents? Are their parents more likely to understand which careers pay well? > don't waste your money Invest wisely? Someone taught me how to manage money beyond my immediate expenses, and compound interest works, and how different investments work, and what a mortgage rate was, and how I could evaluate a bank. Those are all skills that allow you to turn your money into more money more efficiently, and they are all skills typically associate with upper class folks. > But thanks for smearing all 20% of us with your slur. It sounds like you don't know much about the bottom of the top 20%. I am currently a member of the top 20%. I have also lived in the bottom 20% for years. At no point did I feel the parent comment was smearing anyone.
      - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
        I see the inherited wealth of opportunity and culture. I don't see the "be born rich and hoard your wealth with an iron fist". I'm not trying to keep the children of factory workers from valuing college, or trying to make it impossible for them to go. I'm trying to encourage them to go, and to choose majors that will let them get decent jobs. The wealth that you're talking about, I'm trying to give away.
    - ljj1122 8y ago
      You're talking about telling people to "go to college" when food security is a daily problem they have to deal with, never mind affording SAT/ACT test prep/exam fees, and I'm not going to even bother with AP/SAT Subject Tests, probably things you took part in. And some of these people do go to college, but I very much doubt that the subset of colleges they applied to had much overlap with yours.
    - fzeroracer 8y ago
      I was born in the bottom 20% and rose to around the top 20%. In order to do so, I had to sacrifice my personal health and risk financial ruin multiple times. I'm likely to need a full set of dentures by the time I'm 35-40ish. Would I wish that upon anyone? Absolutely not. Which is why I believe in fixing things by removing the huge wealth disparity and actually providing a proper safety net for people. The culture I inherited required me to make many sacrifices which I'm sure other, far smarter people have made. The difference is that I was lucky enough to not be killed by them.
yourapostasy 8y ago
Simplistically, I suspect it is because they lack sufficient time. The sheer quantity of information and habits children must process to climb up the rungs of success in the developed world is quite large. I don't mean just academics, but also soft-skills areas like networking, leadership, interpersonal communications, etc. More interestingly, the sheer amount of information to evaluate and reject is also quite large. Read any Ask Reddit thread about what is common knowledge in a particular industry but isn't well-known publicly. Much of this information is passed along in many well-to-do families, but not as much in less-well-off families. Yet all of this information is either passed off as inaccurate common knowledge (you save more money per fluid ounce buying the biggest cup of Coke you can; truth: you shouldn't drink any sugar water of any kind, in any common American quantities, full stop), or is simply not known at all (insurance company tells you to use X body shop for repairs after an accident they're paying for, but fewer working class than middle-class people know you can tell them you're choosing Y body shop instead). It takes a massive amount of parental involvement time to convey this mountain of information and inculcate these habits of thought into children, starting at infancy with baby sign language to impress an early predilection to communicate thoughts, all the way through adulthood with assessing people's character and financial affairs. Since these are young developing minds, repetition is the mother skill you will turn to time and again, so many lessons are taught many times over, increasing the time commitment. If you're already time-trapped trying to hold down enough work to pay for exorbitant American urban/suburban real estate, healthcare, and education (among other expense categories), then you won't have the time to convey all this information that is definitely not taught in schools in America. Of course the issue is way more complex and nuanced than just what I've touched upon, but I see tons of parents in America spending way too little time with their children.

At least partly because when the 20% try to show the 80% that they need these things, the 20% get accused of cultural imperialism for daring to suggest that their values and culture are better than others'.

moate 8y ago
The majority of the 20% were born in the top. If the culture they're trying to show us is "be born rich and hoard your wealth with an iron fist" that's not extremely helpful.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  I was probably born in the top 20%. The culture I inherited was "learn in school, go to college, learn to do something that pays, get a job that pays well, don't waste your money". I definitely wasn't born rich, I haven't inherited at all (yet), and I don't hoard with an iron fist. But thanks for smearing all 20% of us with your slur. It sounds like you don't know much about the bottom of the top 20%.
  - Pfhreak 8y ago
    You don't see the inherited wealth here? The whole infrastructure you've described in your culture was built by previous wealth... > learn in school Easier in a wealthy school. May be impossible or extraordinarily difficult in a low income school. > go to college Easier if you come from a wealthy background. You may have legacy, or financial means to apply to more schools, or ability to take more test prep, etc. > Learn to do something that pays Are wealthy kids more likely to have mentors or connections in their network due to their parents? Are their parents more likely to understand which careers pay well? > don't waste your money Invest wisely? Someone taught me how to manage money beyond my immediate expenses, and compound interest works, and how different investments work, and what a mortgage rate was, and how I could evaluate a bank. Those are all skills that allow you to turn your money into more money more efficiently, and they are all skills typically associate with upper class folks. > But thanks for smearing all 20% of us with your slur. It sounds like you don't know much about the bottom of the top 20%. I am currently a member of the top 20%. I have also lived in the bottom 20% for years. At no point did I feel the parent comment was smearing anyone.
    - AnimalMuppet 8y ago
      I see the inherited wealth of opportunity and culture. I don't see the "be born rich and hoard your wealth with an iron fist". I'm not trying to keep the children of factory workers from valuing college, or trying to make it impossible for them to go. I'm trying to encourage them to go, and to choose majors that will let them get decent jobs. The wealth that you're talking about, I'm trying to give away.
  - ljj1122 8y ago
    You're talking about telling people to "go to college" when food security is a daily problem they have to deal with, never mind affording SAT/ACT test prep/exam fees, and I'm not going to even bother with AP/SAT Subject Tests, probably things you took part in. And some of these people do go to college, but I very much doubt that the subset of colleges they applied to had much overlap with yours.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    I was born in the bottom 20% and rose to around the top 20%. In order to do so, I had to sacrifice my personal health and risk financial ruin multiple times. I'm likely to need a full set of dentures by the time I'm 35-40ish. Would I wish that upon anyone? Absolutely not. Which is why I believe in fixing things by removing the huge wealth disparity and actually providing a proper safety net for people. The culture I inherited required me to make many sacrifices which I'm sure other, far smarter people have made. The difference is that I was lucky enough to not be killed by them.

yourapostasy 8y ago

Simplistically, I suspect it is because they lack sufficient time. The sheer quantity of information and habits children must process to climb up the rungs of success in the developed world is quite large. I don't mean just academics, but also soft-skills areas like networking, leadership, interpersonal communications, etc. More interestingly, the sheer amount of information to evaluate and reject is also quite large. Read any Ask Reddit thread about what is common knowledge in a particular industry but isn't well-known publicly. Much of this information is passed along in many well-to-do families, but not as much in less-well-off families. Yet all of this information is either passed off as inaccurate common knowledge (you save more money per fluid ounce buying the biggest cup of Coke you can; truth: you shouldn't drink any sugar water of any kind, in any common American quantities, full stop), or is simply not known at all (insurance company tells you to use X body shop for repairs after an accident they're paying for, but fewer working class than middle-class people know you can tell them you're choosing Y body shop instead). It takes a massive amount of parental involvement time to convey this mountain of information and inculcate these habits of thought into children, starting at infancy with baby sign language to impress an early predilection to communicate thoughts, all the way through adulthood with assessing people's character and financial affairs. Since these are young developing minds, repetition is the mother skill you will turn to time and again, so many lessons are taught many times over, increasing the time commitment. If you're already time-trapped trying to hold down enough work to pay for exorbitant American urban/suburban real estate, healthcare, and education (among other expense categories), then you won't have the time to convey all this information that is definitely not taught in schools in America. Of course the issue is way more complex and nuanced than just what I've touched upon, but I see tons of parents in America spending way too little time with their children.