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>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football I cannot disagree more. NFL is the biggest sports league in the

>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football I cannot disagree more. NFL is the biggest sports league in the entire world by revenue by far, even though it's only played within the United States! More and more people are playing video games, but eSports is still a very niche market. You certainly don't see people talking about a DOTA championship match as much as people talking about the Superbowl game on social media. eSports still has a long way to go in terms of general acceptance and social influence. edit: changed "sports" to "sports league" after seeing some feedback

aetimmes 8y ago
> NFL is the biggest sports in the entire world by revenue by far Source on this? I can't imagine this being true compared to soccer.
- simmanian 8y ago
  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-last-season-see-how-it-stacks-up-against-other-leagues-2016-07-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-la...
- conception 8y ago
  It's not. ~NFL = ~Champions League.
- astura 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le... NFL had €11,394 million (over eleven billion Euro) in revenue in 2017 whereas the Premier League had €5,340 million (over five billion Euro) in revenue for 2016–17. MLB and the NBA also beat out the Premier League in revenue. EDIT: OK, OK, I thought the GP was talking about sports LEAGUES not NFL vs sports as a whole. I read "sports league."
  - renjimen 8y ago
    The Premier League is one league in a country of fewer than 70 million people. Try adding up all the leagues across Europe for a fairer comparison. Then it's no contest - football (the one played with feet) takes it
    - astura 8y ago
      I thought the claim was the NFL was the "biggest" sports LEAGUE in the world not "biggest" sport - "NFL" isn't a sport, it's a sports league. The NFL isn't the only American football league and I even heard that Vince McMahon is thinking about reviving XFL;. EDIT: Vince McMahon is planning on reviving the XFL in 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2020)#Revival https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2020)#Revival
      - wolco 8y ago
        College football is huge. Arena football is popular as well.
  - aurelius12 8y ago
    "Soccer" brings in more revenue American football, baseball, and basketball....combined. This article's 5 years old, but still relevant: https://mic.com/articles/91009/soccer-s-global-dominance-of-sports-in-3-simple-charts#.p33miZkvy https://mic.com/articles/91009/soccer-s-global-dominance-of-...
  - microtherion 8y ago
    The NFL is the biggest LEAGUE by revenue, but soccer is by far the bigger SPORT. Just add up the revenues from all the national leagues. To my knowledge, there is only one other professional league in the world (in Canada) that plays (more or less) the same sport as the NFL.
    - Retric 8y ago
      NFL is also used as a shortcut for a sport as it’s got different rules than high school or college football, and the both share a name with Soccer.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
bilbo0s 8y ago
Well, the original commenter overstated the importance of eSports, but you're overstating the appeal of American Football. The global sports are probably soccer, and basketball, in that order. And even those are only because they are the cheapest to play. Just need a ball and a goal. I think this appeal is reflected in global revenue, and certainly in participation, outside of US. I'm pretty sure it's soccer by far.
- simmanian 8y ago
  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-last-season-see-how-it-stacks-up-against-other-leagues-2016-07-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-la... This article says otherwise, but who knows, maybe it's wrong.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    I don't know man? I think this is just saying which league has the most revenue. I'd find it very difficult to believe that the number of people who played American Football professionally and recreationally was anywhere even close to the number of people who played soccer on this planet last year. I'd be pretty confident betting that the number of people who play basketball on this planet dwarfs the number of people who play American Football. (And the number of people with an interest in soccer or basketball on this planet definitely dwarfs the number of people interested in American Football.) Maybe American Football can make a lot of money because it is in a rich market? Not really sure. But you can't really argue soccer and basketball as the global sports. It's not even close.
    - simmanian 8y ago
      Yeah, I was talking about specific leagues, not sports entirely. My original post was misleading.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Add up all the “Association football” from here and it’s huge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_.... Soccer is a much larger sport by revenue globally. It’s simply split into different nations + an international competition. The US is a single market so if you split things by country it tends to win. PS: The World Cup is based on the best national teams vs using each individual team. Much like the US men’s basketball team at the Olympics vs NBA.
jimmy1 8y ago
Yeah I am not sure about the NFL being the biggest in the world, but I got a bit of a laugh out of eSports being more relevant. People forget eSports is decades old now at this point, and the pinnacle of the eSports world is Korea where it has just now caught up to even challenge traditional sports such as Soccer. In America, there is still a way's to go. "Activate (www.activate.com) projects that in the United States eSports will have more viewers than every professional sports league but the NFL by 2021" and will need to more than double viewership to topple the NFL. And if you consider "traditional sports" holistically like they are treating "eSports" it is more fair to consider NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS viewership together, of which have large non-overlapping segments, then the gap becomes more of a chasm. Riot released viewership total for the Worlds finals a couple months ago, and viewership in NA was significantly down than the previous year. In fact in almost every eSport viewership figure, if you discount Chinese and Korean viewership, the rest is almost insignificant -- an MLB playoff game attracts more viewers. I will say we are in the twilight years of the NFL, but what is more likely is that another physical sport topples the NFL throne rather than an eSport.
- elif 8y ago
  What's better: 15 million viewers 17 days a year or 300k viewers 365 days a year? 1 viewer who gets the channel anyway and has social pressure to watch, or 1 viewer who goes out of his way to pay to watch something on his own? I think there is far more nuance to trendiness than the story told by a Nielson Rating System calculated decades ago.
  - jimmy1 8y ago
    What eSport gets 300k viewers 365 days a year?
    - hinkley 8y ago
      Maybe apples and oranges. Only 2 football teams get 15 million viewers one Sunday a year and it's a good bet it won't be the same two next year. As a national advertiser that's a big deal but if you've been supporting that team all year it's not as big of a benefit to you, and if you've been supporting a team that didn't go then it's less than useless.
diminoten 8y ago
Why are you measuring by revenue and not by viewership?
bredren 8y ago
I think video games have a bigger tent and offer opportunity for notoriety and even celebrity to way more young people than American football. American football is one of the most exclusionary school sports that exists. I don't have data on this, but it feels to me that young people, particularly boys, are more interested in playing minecraft or fortnite and watching streamer videos of either game than high school, college or professional football. And it makes sense because it doesn't matter how big you are or whether you can hang in a locker room or what you look like or what gender you are--what matters is you can play a game well or with style. There are also more opportunities around eSports for young people in that they bundle in cosplay, artwork and even creating training videos and blogs are wide open opportunities to participate at little to no cost and regardless of physical capability. Revenue is not a forward indicator of relevance. If anything it shows what _was previously_ important because this year's bowl game was a 10-year low in ratings.[1] Meanwhile, Twitch has more viewership than CNN or MSNBC. [2] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/04/super-bowl-tv-ratings-hit-10-year-low https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/04/super-bowl-tv-... [2] https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-spectator-phenomenon/ https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-...

aetimmes 8y ago

> NFL is the biggest sports in the entire world by revenue by far Source on this? I can't imagine this being true compared to soccer.

simmanian 8y ago
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-last-season-see-how-it-stacks-up-against-other-leagues-2016-07-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-la...
conception 8y ago
It's not. ~NFL = ~Champions League.
astura 8y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le... NFL had €11,394 million (over eleven billion Euro) in revenue in 2017 whereas the Premier League had €5,340 million (over five billion Euro) in revenue for 2016–17. MLB and the NBA also beat out the Premier League in revenue. EDIT: OK, OK, I thought the GP was talking about sports LEAGUES not NFL vs sports as a whole. I read "sports league."
- renjimen 8y ago
  The Premier League is one league in a country of fewer than 70 million people. Try adding up all the leagues across Europe for a fairer comparison. Then it's no contest - football (the one played with feet) takes it
  - astura 8y ago
    I thought the claim was the NFL was the "biggest" sports LEAGUE in the world not "biggest" sport - "NFL" isn't a sport, it's a sports league. The NFL isn't the only American football league and I even heard that Vince McMahon is thinking about reviving XFL;. EDIT: Vince McMahon is planning on reviving the XFL in 2020: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2020)#Revival https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XFL_(2020)#Revival
    - wolco 8y ago
      College football is huge. Arena football is popular as well.
- aurelius12 8y ago
  "Soccer" brings in more revenue American football, baseball, and basketball....combined. This article's 5 years old, but still relevant: https://mic.com/articles/91009/soccer-s-global-dominance-of-sports-in-3-simple-charts#.p33miZkvy https://mic.com/articles/91009/soccer-s-global-dominance-of-...
- microtherion 8y ago
  The NFL is the biggest LEAGUE by revenue, but soccer is by far the bigger SPORT. Just add up the revenues from all the national leagues. To my knowledge, there is only one other professional league in the world (in Canada) that plays (more or less) the same sport as the NFL.
  - Retric 8y ago
    NFL is also used as a shortcut for a sport as it’s got different rules than high school or college football, and the both share a name with Soccer.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

bilbo0s 8y ago

Well, the original commenter overstated the importance of eSports, but you're overstating the appeal of American Football. The global sports are probably soccer, and basketball, in that order. And even those are only because they are the cheapest to play. Just need a ball and a goal. I think this appeal is reflected in global revenue, and certainly in participation, outside of US. I'm pretty sure it's soccer by far.

simmanian 8y ago
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-last-season-see-how-it-stacks-up-against-other-leagues-2016-07-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-la... This article says otherwise, but who knows, maybe it's wrong.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  I don't know man? I think this is just saying which league has the most revenue. I'd find it very difficult to believe that the number of people who played American Football professionally and recreationally was anywhere even close to the number of people who played soccer on this planet last year. I'd be pretty confident betting that the number of people who play basketball on this planet dwarfs the number of people who play American Football. (And the number of people with an interest in soccer or basketball on this planet definitely dwarfs the number of people interested in American Football.) Maybe American Football can make a lot of money because it is in a rich market? Not really sure. But you can't really argue soccer and basketball as the global sports. It's not even close.
  - simmanian 8y ago
    Yeah, I was talking about specific leagues, not sports entirely. My original post was misleading.
  - Retric 8y ago
    Add up all the “Association football” from here and it’s huge. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_.... Soccer is a much larger sport by revenue globally. It’s simply split into different nations + an international competition. The US is a single market so if you split things by country it tends to win. PS: The World Cup is based on the best national teams vs using each individual team. Much like the US men’s basketball team at the Olympics vs NBA.

jimmy1 8y ago

Yeah I am not sure about the NFL being the biggest in the world, but I got a bit of a laugh out of eSports being more relevant. People forget eSports is decades old now at this point, and the pinnacle of the eSports world is Korea where it has just now caught up to even challenge traditional sports such as Soccer. In America, there is still a way's to go. "Activate (www.activate.com) projects that in the United States eSports will have more viewers than every professional sports league but the NFL by 2021" and will need to more than double viewership to topple the NFL. And if you consider "traditional sports" holistically like they are treating "eSports" it is more fair to consider NFL, MLB, NBA, NHL, MLS viewership together, of which have large non-overlapping segments, then the gap becomes more of a chasm. Riot released viewership total for the Worlds finals a couple months ago, and viewership in NA was significantly down than the previous year. In fact in almost every eSport viewership figure, if you discount Chinese and Korean viewership, the rest is almost insignificant -- an MLB playoff game attracts more viewers. I will say we are in the twilight years of the NFL, but what is more likely is that another physical sport topples the NFL throne rather than an eSport.

elif 8y ago
What's better: 15 million viewers 17 days a year or 300k viewers 365 days a year? 1 viewer who gets the channel anyway and has social pressure to watch, or 1 viewer who goes out of his way to pay to watch something on his own? I think there is far more nuance to trendiness than the story told by a Nielson Rating System calculated decades ago.
- jimmy1 8y ago
  What eSport gets 300k viewers 365 days a year?
  - hinkley 8y ago
    Maybe apples and oranges. Only 2 football teams get 15 million viewers one Sunday a year and it's a good bet it won't be the same two next year. As a national advertiser that's a big deal but if you've been supporting that team all year it's not as big of a benefit to you, and if you've been supporting a team that didn't go then it's less than useless.

diminoten 8y ago

Why are you measuring by revenue and not by viewership?

bredren 8y ago

I think video games have a bigger tent and offer opportunity for notoriety and even celebrity to way more young people than American football. American football is one of the most exclusionary school sports that exists. I don't have data on this, but it feels to me that young people, particularly boys, are more interested in playing minecraft or fortnite and watching streamer videos of either game than high school, college or professional football. And it makes sense because it doesn't matter how big you are or whether you can hang in a locker room or what you look like or what gender you are--what matters is you can play a game well or with style. There are also more opportunities around eSports for young people in that they bundle in cosplay, artwork and even creating training videos and blogs are wide open opportunities to participate at little to no cost and regardless of physical capability. Revenue is not a forward indicator of relevance. If anything it shows what _was previously_ important because this year's bowl game was a 10-year low in ratings.[1] Meanwhile, Twitch has more viewership than CNN or MSNBC. [2] [1] https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/04/super-bowl-tv-ratings-hit-10-year-low https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2019/feb/04/super-bowl-tv-... [2] https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-spectator-phenomenon/ https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-...