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Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? The substantial difference is the lack of padding in those sports. They are still p

Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? The substantial difference is the lack of padding in those sports. They are still physical. There is still tackling. But human beings behave differently when they don't think they and the target of their tackle are wearing a suit of armor.

QuotedForTruth 8y ago
No the substantial difference is the huge difference in the rules of the games. American football stops 100 times a game and sets everyone up to match up with someone and hit them. Concussions dont just happen in tackles. They happen in blocking too (no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik). There are an order of magnitude more blocks than tackles in any play or game. Some of the football concussion studies have shown that many sub concussive hits is horrible for the brain too. [1] A football player expierences tens of thousands of these over their career. Take the armor away and you'll just have people dying instead of getting concussions. Knees to the head arent uncommon and are certainly not intentional by the kneeer or kneed. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/578355877/repeated-head-hits-not-concussions-may-be-behind-a-type-of-chronic-brain-damage https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/5783558...
- retsibsi 8y ago
  > no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik There's something analogous in Australian football (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_football) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_...). It's not supposed to involve head contact, but concussions and whiplash injuries do happen.
SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-not-to-sustain-a-concussion-after-25-matches-in-a-season-93221 https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-n... Yes, concussions are still a huge problem.
- nerdponx 8y ago
  The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? The argument is similar in MMA vs boxing - yes, you are still getting punched in the face and there is no way around that. But with thin gloves and wider variety of ways to get knocked down or out, you are less likely to receive permanent brain damage.
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? That's a relevant question, but the post that sparked this exchange talked about the impossibility of 'concussion free football', and said that 'concussion won't go away'. To the extent that rugby or Australian rules are useful comparisons here, they definitely cause enough concussions to support that point (and not just in a pedantic, >0 way -- it's a big problem in both sports).
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? Retsibsi makes a lot of excellent points, but also the only way we can find that out is if we have American Football players play the game unprotected and find out. That comparison of MMA to boxing doesn't work either, as it's not a matter of protection that affects the injury rate, it's the fact that you can't grapple in boxing. Boxing forces the game to be about hitting each-other in the head until time out or knock out, MMA doesn't have that same restriction. And that plays into my "to have a concussion free football game is to not have football." point.
    - scott_s 8y ago
      It's also important to remember that the dynamics of an MMA fight and a boxing fight are only part of the damage a fighter will take during their career. They will also endure many, many sub-concussive hits during sparring that will also contributed to brain damage.
    - stochastic_monk 8y ago
      They used to play without padding. That’s why Johnny Unitas, one of the most revered American Football players, was so physically damaged after his career. From Wikipedia: “Toward the end of his life, Unitas brought media attention to the many permanent physical disabilities that he and his fellow players suffered during their careers before heavy padding and other safety features became popular. Unitas himself lost almost total use of his right hand, with the middle finger and thumb noticeably disfigured from being repeatedly broken during games.” I feel like head trauma has become disproportionately more of long-term physical damage from the sport, but I can’t back that up.
retsibsi 8y ago
> Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? I don't think it's as bad, but the AFL does have a concussion problem. (A quick search didn't turn up any numbers, but here's a relevant article: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-concussion-and-brain-damage-to-ensure-afl-debate-rages https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-c... .) Players don't go in head-first quite as much as they seem to in American football, but every player has to leave their head vulnerable in certain situations (bending down to pick up a contested ball; going back with the flight of the ball) and some are crazy-brave or even lead with the head deliberately to draw a free kick. Rugby is probably a better game to use as a comparison, because it is much more similar to American football, with teams lining up and facing each other front-on. Apparently concussion is the most common injury in English rugby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union

QuotedForTruth 8y ago

No the substantial difference is the huge difference in the rules of the games. American football stops 100 times a game and sets everyone up to match up with someone and hit them. Concussions dont just happen in tackles. They happen in blocking too (no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik). There are an order of magnitude more blocks than tackles in any play or game. Some of the football concussion studies have shown that many sub concussive hits is horrible for the brain too. [1] A football player expierences tens of thousands of these over their career. Take the armor away and you'll just have people dying instead of getting concussions. Knees to the head arent uncommon and are certainly not intentional by the kneeer or kneed. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/578355877/repeated-head-hits-not-concussions-may-be-behind-a-type-of-chronic-brain-damage https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/5783558...

retsibsi 8y ago
> no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik There's something analogous in Australian football (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_football) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_...). It's not supposed to involve head contact, but concussions and whiplash injuries do happen.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-not-to-sustain-a-concussion-after-25-matches-in-a-season-93221 https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-n... Yes, concussions are still a huge problem.

nerdponx 8y ago
The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? The argument is similar in MMA vs boxing - yes, you are still getting punched in the face and there is no way around that. But with thin gloves and wider variety of ways to get knocked down or out, you are less likely to receive permanent brain damage.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? That's a relevant question, but the post that sparked this exchange talked about the impossibility of 'concussion free football', and said that 'concussion won't go away'. To the extent that rugby or Australian rules are useful comparisons here, they definitely cause enough concussions to support that point (and not just in a pedantic, >0 way -- it's a big problem in both sports).
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? Retsibsi makes a lot of excellent points, but also the only way we can find that out is if we have American Football players play the game unprotected and find out. That comparison of MMA to boxing doesn't work either, as it's not a matter of protection that affects the injury rate, it's the fact that you can't grapple in boxing. Boxing forces the game to be about hitting each-other in the head until time out or knock out, MMA doesn't have that same restriction. And that plays into my "to have a concussion free football game is to not have football." point.
  - scott_s 8y ago
    It's also important to remember that the dynamics of an MMA fight and a boxing fight are only part of the damage a fighter will take during their career. They will also endure many, many sub-concussive hits during sparring that will also contributed to brain damage.
  - stochastic_monk 8y ago
    They used to play without padding. That’s why Johnny Unitas, one of the most revered American Football players, was so physically damaged after his career. From Wikipedia: “Toward the end of his life, Unitas brought media attention to the many permanent physical disabilities that he and his fellow players suffered during their careers before heavy padding and other safety features became popular. Unitas himself lost almost total use of his right hand, with the middle finger and thumb noticeably disfigured from being repeatedly broken during games.” I feel like head trauma has become disproportionately more of long-term physical damage from the sport, but I can’t back that up.

retsibsi 8y ago

> Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? I don't think it's as bad, but the AFL does have a concussion problem. (A quick search didn't turn up any numbers, but here's a relevant article: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-concussion-and-brain-damage-to-ensure-afl-debate-rages https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-c... .) Players don't go in head-first quite as much as they seem to in American football, but every player has to leave their head vulnerable in certain situations (bending down to pick up a contested ball; going back with the flight of the ball) and some are crazy-brave or even lead with the head deliberately to draw a free kick. Rugby is probably a better game to use as a comparison, because it is much more similar to American football, with teams lining up and facing each other front-on. Apparently concussion is the most common injury in English rugby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union