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>"I recall the phrase, 'It's a six-hour, daylong celebration of football, and you're not the right person to celebrate football,'" Costas says. The odd thing w

>"I recall the phrase, 'It's a six-hour, daylong celebration of football, and you're not the right person to celebrate football,'" Costas says. The odd thing was if you watched the Superbowl the culture of the event had obviously changed. You rarely saw cheerleaders, unless in the background of a play. None of the commercials offered up exploitation of women at least nothing on the scale of GoDaddy and Paris Hilton had in the past. Budweiser's main hook throughout was that they did not use high fructose corn syrup in their ingredients! That's a long way from the bro-y bikini image beer companies have made the Superbowl to be about for so long. So when I read that this was a celebration of the culture of Football, what is that now? Is it this more progressive, more healthy sport EXCEPT when it comes to brain trauma? I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football at this point and has true global appeal. Football and the Superbowl seem like so many boomer institutions where this old guard is doing everything to slow down the bleeding for as long as possible.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
> Is it this more progressive, more healthy sport EXCEPT when it comes to brain trauma? The problem, I believe, is that to have a concussion free football game is to not have football. You can redesign the helmets, you can try and catch em early, but unless the dynamics of the game change from two amazingly explosive 350 lbs men running into each other, concussion won't go away.
- deanCommie 8y ago
  Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? The substantial difference is the lack of padding in those sports. They are still physical. There is still tackling. But human beings behave differently when they don't think they and the target of their tackle are wearing a suit of armor.
  - QuotedForTruth 8y ago
    No the substantial difference is the huge difference in the rules of the games. American football stops 100 times a game and sets everyone up to match up with someone and hit them. Concussions dont just happen in tackles. They happen in blocking too (no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik). There are an order of magnitude more blocks than tackles in any play or game. Some of the football concussion studies have shown that many sub concussive hits is horrible for the brain too. [1] A football player expierences tens of thousands of these over their career. Take the armor away and you'll just have people dying instead of getting concussions. Knees to the head arent uncommon and are certainly not intentional by the kneeer or kneed. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/578355877/repeated-head-hits-not-concussions-may-be-behind-a-type-of-chronic-brain-damage https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/5783558...
    - retsibsi 8y ago
      > no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik There's something analogous in Australian football (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_football) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_...). It's not supposed to involve head contact, but concussions and whiplash injuries do happen.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-not-to-sustain-a-concussion-after-25-matches-in-a-season-93221 https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-n... Yes, concussions are still a huge problem.
    - nerdponx 8y ago
      The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? The argument is similar in MMA vs boxing - yes, you are still getting punched in the face and there is no way around that. But with thin gloves and wider variety of ways to get knocked down or out, you are less likely to receive permanent brain damage.
      - retsibsi 8y ago
        > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? That's a relevant question, but the post that sparked this exchange talked about the impossibility of 'concussion free football', and said that 'concussion won't go away'. To the extent that rugby or Australian rules are useful comparisons here, they definitely cause enough concussions to support that point (and not just in a pedantic, >0 way -- it's a big problem in both sports).
      - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? Retsibsi makes a lot of excellent points, but also the only way we can find that out is if we have American Football players play the game unprotected and find out. That comparison of MMA to boxing doesn't work either, as it's not a matter of protection that affects the injury rate, it's the fact that you can't grapple in boxing. Boxing forces the game to be about hitting each-other in the head until time out or knock out, MMA doesn't have that same restriction. And that plays into my "to have a concussion free football game is to not have football." point.
        scott_s 8y ago
        It's also important to remember that the dynamics of an MMA fight and a boxing fight are only part of the damage a fighter will take during their career. They will also endure many, many sub-concussive hits during sparring that will also contributed to brain damage.
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    > Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? I don't think it's as bad, but the AFL does have a concussion problem. (A quick search didn't turn up any numbers, but here's a relevant article: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-concussion-and-brain-damage-to-ensure-afl-debate-rages https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-c... .) Players don't go in head-first quite as much as they seem to in American football, but every player has to leave their head vulnerable in certain situations (bending down to pick up a contested ball; going back with the flight of the ball) and some are crazy-brave or even lead with the head deliberately to draw a free kick. Rugby is probably a better game to use as a comparison, because it is much more similar to American football, with teams lining up and facing each other front-on. Apparently concussion is the most common injury in English rugby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union
- jedberg 8y ago
  Go back to leather helmets, and eject players for their first head contact. Wire up the caps with sensors. If the sensor goes off, you're out. The game would still be exciting without the head hits.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    > If the sensor goes off, you're out. Ok, so this 350 lbs man has been hit in the head without protection and he's out. When does he come back? Is that it, career over? Cause I can guarantee you he now has a concussion.
    - jedberg 8y ago
      No I mean the hitter is out for the game. If you hit someone in the head, you're out for the game.
      - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        I don't see how that would help as it would just turn to strategy, you'd be aiming to foul out key players with concussions. And what if you legitimately tackle a guy from behind and he hits the ground so hard his sensor goes off? You've still got a concussed player, but now you have to play the rules game.
        jedberg 8y ago
        > you'd be aiming to foul out key players with concussions. I don't see players willingly getting concussions just to get other players out. > And what if you legitimately tackle a guy from behind and he hits the ground so hard his sensor goes off? You've still got a concussed player, but now you have to play the rules game. It would be up to the refs to call if it was intentional. The sensor is only there to help the ref make the call.
        kelnos 8y ago
- colordrops 8y ago
  We move to touch or flags. I played plenty of touch and flag football games without head trauma.
  - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
    While that seems like a good answer, I can't see the NFL adopting that approach. Touch and flag football isn't really the same game, and wouldn't have the same draw as contact football.
    - dexterdog 8y ago
      The NFL is moving closer to touch football every year.
      - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
        Well then based upon this (1), touch football won't help the concussion problem anyways. 1) https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/26/nfl-concussions-2017-season-study-history/1070344001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/26/nfl-con...
        dexterdog 8y ago
        How much of that is because of the concussion protocol?
      - craftyguy 8y ago
        [Citation needed]
  - cjaybo 8y ago
    It doesn't matter if it's playable if no one wants to watch the games. Do you think you would enjoy watching a game of touch, or flag football?
throwaway5752 8y ago
This has nothing to do with the current or future popularity of the sport, it has everything to do with minimizing the overall tort liability to current and retired players.
simmanian 8y ago
>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football I cannot disagree more. NFL is the biggest sports league in the entire world by revenue by far, even though it's only played within the United States! More and more people are playing video games, but eSports is still a very niche market. You certainly don't see people talking about a DOTA championship match as much as people talking about the Superbowl game on social media. eSports still has a long way to go in terms of general acceptance and social influence. edit: changed "sports" to "sports league" after seeing some feedback
- aetimmes 8y ago
  > NFL is the biggest sports in the entire world by revenue by far Source on this? I can't imagine this being true compared to soccer.
  - simmanian 8y ago
    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-last-season-see-how-it-stacks-up-against-other-leagues-2016-07-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-la...
  - conception 8y ago
    It's not. ~NFL = ~Champions League.
  - astura 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le... NFL had €11,394 million (over eleven billion Euro) in revenue in 2017 whereas the Premier League had €5,340 million (over five billion Euro) in revenue for 2016–17. MLB and the NBA also beat out the Premier League in revenue. EDIT: OK, OK, I thought the GP was talking about sports LEAGUES not NFL vs sports as a whole. I read "sports league."
    - renjimen 8y ago
josefresco 8y ago
The "spectacle" of the Super Bowl may be lost, but the NFL is far from "bleeding". >Says Costas: "Look, the NFL isn't just the most important sports property, it's the single-most important property in all of American television. And it isn't even close."
lmkg 8y ago
> Budweiser's main hook throughout was that they did not > use high fructose corn syrup in their ingredients! In the interest of counter-acting deceptive marketing: None of the named competitor beers use high-fructose corn syrup. They use regular corn syrup. Meanwhile, Budweiser does use high-fructose corn syrup in some of its products (but not Bud Lite specifically). While the ads did not mention high-fructose corn syrup (they would not be stupid enough to make an actually false claim), I'm sure that implied association was intentional.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Zimahl 8y ago
> I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football Ironically, fantasy football is the biggest eSport by far.
- bredren 8y ago
  This is possibly the most interesting reply. I hadn't thought of FF as an eSport but I can easily see how it can be packaged under that tent.
joshe 8y ago
Here are the top sports leagues with revenue summed by sport (in Euros). Soccer is far ahead of football. [1] Ice hockey is surprisingly lucrative. Sport "SUM of Revenue (€ mil)" Association football (soccer) 32,412 American football 11,394 Baseball 10,868 Basketball 6,658 Ice hockey 5,495 Auto racing 2,491 Australian rules football 754 Rugby union football 710.8 Twenty20 cricket 480 Rugby league football 414 Canadian football 200 Handball 103 Grand Total 71,979 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le...
porpoisely 8y ago
I agree. The superbowl is a day long celebration of ads. Football is just a sideshow. Now as for ads themselves, they've gone from selling products to social engineering and selling an agenda. Is this a result of monopolization of industries where megacorporations no longer are worried about competition? Is it just a result of media getting more and more extreme ideologically? Maybe both? And it's not just ads. It's the entire media space. TV shows, movies, etc are more about ideology and agenda than art or even attracting an audience. Even award shows, best selling book lists, prizes, etc are more about agenda than anything else. Maybe it's always been that way to some degree, but lately, it's become so extreme that the average person can see it now.
- unclebucknasty 8y ago
  >Is this a result of monopolization of industries where megacorporations no longer are worried about competition? Is it just a result of media getting more and more extreme ideologically? Maybe both? >more about agenda than anything else...it's become so extreme that the average person can see it now I believe it's that companies will always do what they assess is required to sell more stuff. In this age of hyper-awareness, uber-politicization, and social-activism, it's likely the companies now believe that's what people want--for them to be engaged. And, it's a somewhat rational conclusion. On the other end, you see boycotts, etc. when companies go against the beliefs of certain customer groups, or even when companies sponsor people who do. It's this idea that people want companies to do "good", or at least the customers' version of good. So, they are likely just tapping into that. It's where many people seem to be these days, so that's where companies are trying to meet them.
- sotojuan 8y ago
  Companies do stuff like that because they think or have proved that it sells. I've heard and read that people increasingly don't want just products any more. They want a brand, a story, etc. That might not work for beer or TVs but that won't stop Budweiser and Sony from trying.
  - Retra 8y ago
    What happens when a marketer sends out a brand message which reaches theoretically maximal returns? Why, nothing. They come to work the next day and try to beat it. Advertising isn't a job that's just "done" and people walk away satisfied. McDonalds isn't going to stop putting new things on their menu either. Capitalism doesn't really seem to work otherwise... If you produced the optimal product, you have to come back next year and produce an (almost-by-definition) less optimal product and sell it better than you did before. Most companies do things because people are being paid at that company to do things. The assumption that they do things because they work better or are better should not be so easily believed or sold. I produce content for my employer because they pay me to produce content, not because I think I can produce content which is better than all other content. Just because people are running really hard doesn't mean they aren't going in circles.
mcguire 8y ago
If you ask a gamer about the portrayal of women in games, you will probably get a bad reaction. If you ask a US Civil War re-enactor about the proportion of black people in the hobby, you will probably get a bad reaction. If you ask a chess afficionado about...ok, I don't know what will set them off. Some criticisms are off limits in every field.
- noir_lord 8y ago
  > If you ask a chess afficionado about...ok, I don't know what will set them off. Ask them if they think women only Chess tournaments are a good idea. That'll generally do it. Source: Chess player.
- scrumbledober 8y ago
  > If you ask a chess afficionado about...ok, I don't know what will set them off. the difference in ranking requirements for male grandmasters and female grandmasters
JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/us/super-bowl-male-cheerleaders-nfl-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/us/super-bowl-male-cheerleade... There were actually male cheerleaders in the Super Bowl this year.
nopriorarrests 8y ago
>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football Come on?! I don't know about US, but good old football (not an american kind) is like 100x times more imporant in Europe than any eSport. Yesterday Manchester City - Chelsea game ended up 6:0, and #MCICHE tag was trending on twitter worldwide (and it is only England Premier League, not even Soccer World Cup!) Please wake me up once some eSport event will be a worldwide trending topic on twitter.
- bredren 8y ago
  I was specifically talking about American Football but even still, you might not be sleeping too long. Paris Saint-Germain is a co-owner of the 2nd place champion DOTA 2 team in 2018 PSG is the 11th most valuable football club in the world and worth 825m euros. They bought in April of this past yaer and obviously see Dota 2 as worth investing in now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSG.LGD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSG.LGD It's funny how hacker news is obsessed with finding the next big thing but when something comes along that might challenge traditional sports industry there is so much objection. This is not specific to this comment but replies I'm seeing throughout. I find this especially odd in light of the fact that a Twitch founder was a venture parter at ycombinator.
matthoiland 8y ago
Anecdotal, but the eSport Overwatch League is the first time I actually enjoyed watching a spectator sport. Every other sport feels like tribalism and favors a brand over strategy and skill. These kids playing these eSports are crazy brilliant strategists, making decision in milliseconds, and breaking down their plays after the fact is utterly fascinating. –36/M USA.
bliblah 8y ago
>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football at this point and has true global appeal. To be fair, it is also much muuuuuch cheaper to go and watch a Live match of League/Overwatch/Dota. I went to TI8 and the tickets were $190 for the final 3 days; I even got a cosmetic that I was able to sell for $400 on the steam marketplace. Even comparing a Major LAN event to a Single match of any sport can be a magnitude of difference in terms of price. Also like you mentioned, the global appeal is crazy strong. I saw so many people from China, South East Asia, South America, Europe and the Middle East at these LANs regardless of venue. However I do think OWL represent the future which is overly stuffy, no fun allowed, corporate events that are just trying to appeal to advertisers and investors; which is kinda lame. Dota and fighting games still have grassroots feel despite having massive tournaments with hundreds of thousands of viewers.
- bredren 8y ago
  You could see this in the announcement of the planned US-based LAN for the Midas custom game that came out today. The video is absolutely daffy. It reminds me of the old twitter video with the founders as scientists. Super low budget, but raw, real and emerging.
brandonmenc 8y ago
> I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football at this point You're living in a bubble. Pretty much no one wants to watch people play video games. Actual physical competition will always be more interesting to the general public than nerds sitting in chairs pressing buttons to move pictures around on a screen.
- bredren 8y ago
  I am not saying analog sports is going away. And I think it is still a big thing and people will be drawn to it. However, I think the way you described esports suggests you may have personal bias against competitive gaming. I watched both the Super Bowl and 2018 True Sight. Perhaps, it is you, sir, who are living in the bubble. The fact is that people are watching nerds move pictures around on a screen at rates rivaling major cable networks: https://www.investors.com/news/technology/click/esports-channel-twitch-draws-more-viewers-than-cnn/ https://www.investors.com/news/technology/click/esports-chan... 45,000 people attended the 2015 League of Legends final in the same stadium used for the 2002 World Cup. 27 Million people watched it online. https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-spectator-phenomenon/ https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-... This thing is real.
heedlessly3 8y ago
>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football at this point and has true global appeal. Football and the Superbowl seem like so many boomer institutions where this old guard is doing everything to slow down the bleeding for as long as possible. This statement is completely out of touch with mainstream reality.

SketchySeaBeast 8y ago

> Is it this more progressive, more healthy sport EXCEPT when it comes to brain trauma? The problem, I believe, is that to have a concussion free football game is to not have football. You can redesign the helmets, you can try and catch em early, but unless the dynamics of the game change from two amazingly explosive 350 lbs men running into each other, concussion won't go away.

deanCommie 8y ago
Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? The substantial difference is the lack of padding in those sports. They are still physical. There is still tackling. But human beings behave differently when they don't think they and the target of their tackle are wearing a suit of armor.
- QuotedForTruth 8y ago
  No the substantial difference is the huge difference in the rules of the games. American football stops 100 times a game and sets everyone up to match up with someone and hit them. Concussions dont just happen in tackles. They happen in blocking too (no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik). There are an order of magnitude more blocks than tackles in any play or game. Some of the football concussion studies have shown that many sub concussive hits is horrible for the brain too. [1] A football player expierences tens of thousands of these over their career. Take the armor away and you'll just have people dying instead of getting concussions. Knees to the head arent uncommon and are certainly not intentional by the kneeer or kneed. [1] https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/578355877/repeated-head-hits-not-concussions-may-be-behind-a-type-of-chronic-brain-damage https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2018/01/18/5783558...
  - retsibsi 8y ago
    > no blocking in rugby or aussie leages afaik There's something analogous in Australian football (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_football) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_...). It's not supposed to involve head contact, but concussions and whiplash injuries do happen.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-not-to-sustain-a-concussion-after-25-matches-in-a-season-93221 https://theconversation.com/rugby-players-more-likely-than-n... Yes, concussions are still a huge problem.
  - nerdponx 8y ago
    The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? The argument is similar in MMA vs boxing - yes, you are still getting punched in the face and there is no way around that. But with thin gloves and wider variety of ways to get knocked down or out, you are less likely to receive permanent brain damage.
    - retsibsi 8y ago
      > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? That's a relevant question, but the post that sparked this exchange talked about the impossibility of 'concussion free football', and said that 'concussion won't go away'. To the extent that rugby or Australian rules are useful comparisons here, they definitely cause enough concussions to support that point (and not just in a pedantic, >0 way -- it's a big problem in both sports).
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      > The question is, is it a worse problem than in American football? Retsibsi makes a lot of excellent points, but also the only way we can find that out is if we have American Football players play the game unprotected and find out. That comparison of MMA to boxing doesn't work either, as it's not a matter of protection that affects the injury rate, it's the fact that you can't grapple in boxing. Boxing forces the game to be about hitting each-other in the head until time out or knock out, MMA doesn't have that same restriction. And that plays into my "to have a concussion free football game is to not have football." point.
      - scott_s 8y ago
        It's also important to remember that the dynamics of an MMA fight and a boxing fight are only part of the damage a fighter will take during their career. They will also endure many, many sub-concussive hits during sparring that will also contributed to brain damage.
- retsibsi 8y ago
  > Is that true? Do rugby and Australian Rules Football have the same problem? I don't think it's as bad, but the AFL does have a concussion problem. (A quick search didn't turn up any numbers, but here's a relevant article: https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-concussion-and-brain-damage-to-ensure-afl-debate-rages https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/mar/20/link-between-c... .) Players don't go in head-first quite as much as they seem to in American football, but every player has to leave their head vulnerable in certain situations (bending down to pick up a contested ball; going back with the flight of the ball) and some are crazy-brave or even lead with the head deliberately to draw a free kick. Rugby is probably a better game to use as a comparison, because it is much more similar to American football, with teams lining up and facing each other front-on. Apparently concussion is the most common injury in English rugby: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concussions_in_rugby_union
jedberg 8y ago
Go back to leather helmets, and eject players for their first head contact. Wire up the caps with sensors. If the sensor goes off, you're out. The game would still be exciting without the head hits.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  > If the sensor goes off, you're out. Ok, so this 350 lbs man has been hit in the head without protection and he's out. When does he come back? Is that it, career over? Cause I can guarantee you he now has a concussion.
  - jedberg 8y ago
    No I mean the hitter is out for the game. If you hit someone in the head, you're out for the game.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      I don't see how that would help as it would just turn to strategy, you'd be aiming to foul out key players with concussions. And what if you legitimately tackle a guy from behind and he hits the ground so hard his sensor goes off? You've still got a concussed player, but now you have to play the rules game.
      - jedberg 8y ago
        > you'd be aiming to foul out key players with concussions. I don't see players willingly getting concussions just to get other players out. > And what if you legitimately tackle a guy from behind and he hits the ground so hard his sensor goes off? You've still got a concussed player, but now you have to play the rules game. It would be up to the refs to call if it was intentional. The sensor is only there to help the ref make the call.
        kelnos 8y ago
colordrops 8y ago
We move to touch or flags. I played plenty of touch and flag football games without head trauma.
- SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
  While that seems like a good answer, I can't see the NFL adopting that approach. Touch and flag football isn't really the same game, and wouldn't have the same draw as contact football.
  - dexterdog 8y ago
    The NFL is moving closer to touch football every year.
    - SketchySeaBeast 8y ago
      Well then based upon this (1), touch football won't help the concussion problem anyways. 1) https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/26/nfl-concussions-2017-season-study-history/1070344001/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2018/01/26/nfl-con...
      - dexterdog 8y ago
        How much of that is because of the concussion protocol?
    - craftyguy 8y ago
      [Citation needed]
- cjaybo 8y ago
  It doesn't matter if it's playable if no one wants to watch the games. Do you think you would enjoy watching a game of touch, or flag football?

throwaway5752 8y ago

This has nothing to do with the current or future popularity of the sport, it has everything to do with minimizing the overall tort liability to current and retired players.

simmanian 8y ago

>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football I cannot disagree more. NFL is the biggest sports league in the entire world by revenue by far, even though it's only played within the United States! More and more people are playing video games, but eSports is still a very niche market. You certainly don't see people talking about a DOTA championship match as much as people talking about the Superbowl game on social media. eSports still has a long way to go in terms of general acceptance and social influence. edit: changed "sports" to "sports league" after seeing some feedback

aetimmes 8y ago
> NFL is the biggest sports in the entire world by revenue by far Source on this? I can't imagine this being true compared to soccer.
- simmanian 8y ago
  https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-last-season-see-how-it-stacks-up-against-other-leagues-2016-07-01 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/the-nfl-made-13-billion-la...
- conception 8y ago
  It's not. ~NFL = ~Champions League.
- astura 8y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le... NFL had €11,394 million (over eleven billion Euro) in revenue in 2017 whereas the Premier League had €5,340 million (over five billion Euro) in revenue for 2016–17. MLB and the NBA also beat out the Premier League in revenue. EDIT: OK, OK, I thought the GP was talking about sports LEAGUES not NFL vs sports as a whole. I read "sports league."
  - renjimen 8y ago

josefresco 8y ago

The "spectacle" of the Super Bowl may be lost, but the NFL is far from "bleeding". >Says Costas: "Look, the NFL isn't just the most important sports property, it's the single-most important property in all of American television. And it isn't even close."

lmkg 8y ago

> Budweiser's main hook throughout was that they did not > use high fructose corn syrup in their ingredients! In the interest of counter-acting deceptive marketing: None of the named competitor beers use high-fructose corn syrup. They use regular corn syrup. Meanwhile, Budweiser does use high-fructose corn syrup in some of its products (but not Bud Lite specifically). While the ads did not mention high-fructose corn syrup (they would not be stupid enough to make an actually false claim), I'm sure that implied association was intentional.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

Zimahl 8y ago

> I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football Ironically, fantasy football is the biggest eSport by far.

bredren 8y ago
This is possibly the most interesting reply. I hadn't thought of FF as an eSport but I can easily see how it can be packaged under that tent.

joshe 8y ago

Here are the top sports leagues with revenue summed by sport (in Euros). Soccer is far ahead of football. [1] Ice hockey is surprisingly lucrative. Sport "SUM of Revenue (€ mil)" Association football (soccer) 32,412 American football 11,394 Baseball 10,868 Basketball 6,658 Ice hockey 5,495 Auto racing 2,491 Australian rules football 754 Rugby union football 710.8 Twenty20 cricket 480 Rugby league football 414 Canadian football 200 Handball 103 Grand Total 71,979 [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_leagues_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_professional_sports_le...

porpoisely 8y ago

I agree. The superbowl is a day long celebration of ads. Football is just a sideshow. Now as for ads themselves, they've gone from selling products to social engineering and selling an agenda. Is this a result of monopolization of industries where megacorporations no longer are worried about competition? Is it just a result of media getting more and more extreme ideologically? Maybe both? And it's not just ads. It's the entire media space. TV shows, movies, etc are more about ideology and agenda than art or even attracting an audience. Even award shows, best selling book lists, prizes, etc are more about agenda than anything else. Maybe it's always been that way to some degree, but lately, it's become so extreme that the average person can see it now.

unclebucknasty 8y ago
>Is this a result of monopolization of industries where megacorporations no longer are worried about competition? Is it just a result of media getting more and more extreme ideologically? Maybe both? >more about agenda than anything else...it's become so extreme that the average person can see it now I believe it's that companies will always do what they assess is required to sell more stuff. In this age of hyper-awareness, uber-politicization, and social-activism, it's likely the companies now believe that's what people want--for them to be engaged. And, it's a somewhat rational conclusion. On the other end, you see boycotts, etc. when companies go against the beliefs of certain customer groups, or even when companies sponsor people who do. It's this idea that people want companies to do "good", or at least the customers' version of good. So, they are likely just tapping into that. It's where many people seem to be these days, so that's where companies are trying to meet them.
sotojuan 8y ago
Companies do stuff like that because they think or have proved that it sells. I've heard and read that people increasingly don't want just products any more. They want a brand, a story, etc. That might not work for beer or TVs but that won't stop Budweiser and Sony from trying.
- Retra 8y ago
  What happens when a marketer sends out a brand message which reaches theoretically maximal returns? Why, nothing. They come to work the next day and try to beat it. Advertising isn't a job that's just "done" and people walk away satisfied. McDonalds isn't going to stop putting new things on their menu either. Capitalism doesn't really seem to work otherwise... If you produced the optimal product, you have to come back next year and produce an (almost-by-definition) less optimal product and sell it better than you did before. Most companies do things because people are being paid at that company to do things. The assumption that they do things because they work better or are better should not be so easily believed or sold. I produce content for my employer because they pay me to produce content, not because I think I can produce content which is better than all other content. Just because people are running really hard doesn't mean they aren't going in circles.

mcguire 8y ago

If you ask a gamer about the portrayal of women in games, you will probably get a bad reaction. If you ask a US Civil War re-enactor about the proportion of black people in the hobby, you will probably get a bad reaction. If you ask a chess afficionado about...ok, I don't know what will set them off. Some criticisms are off limits in every field.

noir_lord 8y ago
> If you ask a chess afficionado about...ok, I don't know what will set them off. Ask them if they think women only Chess tournaments are a good idea. That'll generally do it. Source: Chess player.
scrumbledober 8y ago
> If you ask a chess afficionado about...ok, I don't know what will set them off. the difference in ranking requirements for male grandmasters and female grandmasters

JohnJamesRambo 8y ago

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/us/super-bowl-male-cheerleaders-nfl-trnd/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/28/us/super-bowl-male-cheerleade... There were actually male cheerleaders in the Super Bowl this year.

nopriorarrests 8y ago

>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football Come on?! I don't know about US, but good old football (not an american kind) is like 100x times more imporant in Europe than any eSport. Yesterday Manchester City - Chelsea game ended up 6:0, and #MCICHE tag was trending on twitter worldwide (and it is only England Premier League, not even Soccer World Cup!) Please wake me up once some eSport event will be a worldwide trending topic on twitter.

bredren 8y ago
I was specifically talking about American Football but even still, you might not be sleeping too long. Paris Saint-Germain is a co-owner of the 2nd place champion DOTA 2 team in 2018 PSG is the 11th most valuable football club in the world and worth 825m euros. They bought in April of this past yaer and obviously see Dota 2 as worth investing in now. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSG.LGD https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSG.LGD It's funny how hacker news is obsessed with finding the next big thing but when something comes along that might challenge traditional sports industry there is so much objection. This is not specific to this comment but replies I'm seeing throughout. I find this especially odd in light of the fact that a Twitch founder was a venture parter at ycombinator.

matthoiland 8y ago

Anecdotal, but the eSport Overwatch League is the first time I actually enjoyed watching a spectator sport. Every other sport feels like tribalism and favors a brand over strategy and skill. These kids playing these eSports are crazy brilliant strategists, making decision in milliseconds, and breaking down their plays after the fact is utterly fascinating. –36/M USA.

bliblah 8y ago

>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football at this point and has true global appeal. To be fair, it is also much muuuuuch cheaper to go and watch a Live match of League/Overwatch/Dota. I went to TI8 and the tickets were $190 for the final 3 days; I even got a cosmetic that I was able to sell for $400 on the steam marketplace. Even comparing a Major LAN event to a Single match of any sport can be a magnitude of difference in terms of price. Also like you mentioned, the global appeal is crazy strong. I saw so many people from China, South East Asia, South America, Europe and the Middle East at these LANs regardless of venue. However I do think OWL represent the future which is overly stuffy, no fun allowed, corporate events that are just trying to appeal to advertisers and investors; which is kinda lame. Dota and fighting games still have grassroots feel despite having massive tournaments with hundreds of thousands of viewers.

bredren 8y ago
You could see this in the announcement of the planned US-based LAN for the Midas custom game that came out today. The video is absolutely daffy. It reminds me of the old twitter video with the founders as scientists. Super low budget, but raw, real and emerging.

brandonmenc 8y ago

> I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football at this point You're living in a bubble. Pretty much no one wants to watch people play video games. Actual physical competition will always be more interesting to the general public than nerds sitting in chairs pressing buttons to move pictures around on a screen.

bredren 8y ago
I am not saying analog sports is going away. And I think it is still a big thing and people will be drawn to it. However, I think the way you described esports suggests you may have personal bias against competitive gaming. I watched both the Super Bowl and 2018 True Sight. Perhaps, it is you, sir, who are living in the bubble. The fact is that people are watching nerds move pictures around on a screen at rates rivaling major cable networks: https://www.investors.com/news/technology/click/esports-channel-twitch-draws-more-viewers-than-cnn/ https://www.investors.com/news/technology/click/esports-chan... 45,000 people attended the 2015 League of Legends final in the same stadium used for the 2002 World Cup. 27 Million people watched it online. https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-spectator-phenomenon/ https://venturebeat.com/2018/11/30/the-rise-of-esports-as-a-... This thing is real.

heedlessly3 8y ago

>I think eSports, particularly DOTA2's TI is far, far more relevant to young men than Football at this point and has true global appeal. Football and the Superbowl seem like so many boomer institutions where this old guard is doing everything to slow down the bleeding for as long as possible. This statement is completely out of touch with mainstream reality.