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The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it and your mental health will improve. Are you going to raise

The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it and your mental health will improve. Are you going to raise your kid to be afraid of the shadows around every corner?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
justtopost 8y ago
Spoken like a true sleazeball. While I agree, generally that 'stranger danger' is bullshit, and the kid-safing of the world does more harm than good, it does not follow that being surveiled without recourse and being pushed to the fringes of social life is ever ok. I challenge you to elucidate how ad-tracking is not a social and sociatal detriment at best, and a tool for despostim and opression if misused in a rather simple way, as seems to be the case currently.
- freehunter 8y ago
  I'd be careful calling people names like that around here.
- jimmaswell 8y ago
  Defense of ad-tracking: increasing value for all parties by making ads more relevant and helping to keep services free. The only significant downside in my opinion is the possibility of data breaches giving the information to identity thieves etc. Otherwise I have no reason to be upset that some computers have determined, without any human involved, that I might be more likely to click on a Cheerios ad than a bicycle ad.
- sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
  Advertisement improves economic efficiency, resulting in increased prosperity. It’s part of the desperately needed decoupling of economic growth and energy consumption. Whether the parameters of some neural net are trained on the Facebook pictures of your baby you uploaded is entirely insignificant. On the other hand, the psychological harm this author will do to their baby if they raise them with an attitude of fear and anxiety is likely to cause them to suffer greatly. I’m not sure what you mean by “pushed to the fringes” - it seems this author’s isolation is self-imposed. I’m familiar with the ways depression and anxiety can isolate a person, so I’m sympathetic. But it’s often not useful to express that fight-or-flight response by trying to spread your anxieties to others. Learning to distinguish which perceived problems actually matter is important. Most of them can be dealt with inside your head, or by talking them through with someone you trust. Learning to do this has greatly improved my quality of life and my personal relationships.
  - mileszim 8y ago
    Removing regulations on financial institutions also improves economic efficiency. It also results in stuff like say, the 2008 housing collapse, or the failure of entire countries (see: Greece). Arguing against privacy protection by claiming its for the benefit of our economy is just rehashing the "free market vs regulated market" argument. Sure, economic efficiency improves. Our wellbeing? Not always. Is ad tracking pervasiveness the same as locking factory workers inside a burning building? Probably not. But we learned well from that mistake almost a century ago. We'll learn from this one too.
    - sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
      These seem like complete non-sequiters, what does ad tracking have to do with mispriced insurance on mortgage-backed securities? How will ad tracking cause the economy to collapse? It seems like you are just bringing up an unrelated traumatic event from the past to scare people. I read that exotic mortgages are making a comeback - maybe congress should focus on that instead of grilling tech CEOs about advertising.
      - mileszim 8y ago
        I see where I wasn't clear in addressing your point--I am not trying to equate ad tracking with securities fraud or workplace ethics disasters, I am comparing their role in shaping our current behaviors and perspectives. In general, we didn't foresee the consequences of derivative markets for mortgage backed securities until it was too late, even though some raised concerns. Now we're very well aware, enacting regulations to hopefully prevent it in the future, as well as provide clear channels for recovery and compensation for damages if it does. In general, we didn't foresee the consequence of unregulated treatment for employees until it was too late, even though some raised concerns. Now we're very well aware, enacting regulations to hopefully prevent it in the future, as well as provide clear channels for recovery and compensation for damages if it does. Comparing that to the tracking market today, we have effectively zero regulation and zero ability for recovery and compensation. We know the tracking market is so pervasive that meaningful living/working today requires submitting yourself to this. We also have articles like this one demonstrating clear concerns. The only thing missing is an understanding of the consequences. We can't ever know the scope of the consequences until they've happened. We can however make predictions (both good and bad). It may be just fine, it may not. Should we take steps now to mitigate the possible bad outcomes? Or should we gamble and let the consequences happen to us? The same argument goes for most civic debate. I don't know what a healthy social and regulatory relationship with the tech looks like. I don't believe anyone does yet. I do know that discussing it like we are now improves our understanding of its complexities, and that's always good. Hope this makes sense. Concerning the remark about congress--they're fully capable of addressing both. No reason for an either/or.
jancsika 8y ago
> The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it. The problem is the web tracking. And spending even a tiny amount of energy reviewing and installing Ublock Origin improves one's mental health in a way that's obvious when observing the browsing patterns of somebody who doesn't block ads. If one wants to extend that obsession down to the source of web tracking and attempt to hide one's behavior from the entire advertising industry, that may run the risk of having a detrimental effect on one's health. But a) there is potentially new information which can be gleaned from trying, and b) one can always scale back to and depend on an easy-to-install set of ad-blocking solutions to filter the worst of it. The only thing you'd save from not worrying at all about web tracking is a small up-front cost of installing an ad-blocker. Those savings pales in comparison to the distractions of being a constant subject to ads.
- sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
  I don’t have a problem with installing ad blockers. That’s not what the article or my response to it is about at all.
24gttghh 8y ago
>The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it The problem is not climate change, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it The problem is not the rampant corruption, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it The problem is not ___ ______, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it Just give up, right?
- sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
  We are destroying the planet, now that’s something worth worrying about! Corruption is also bad, especially when it contributes to important problems like climate change. Obsessing about whether some transistors at Google and Facebook are switched in a way that was influenced by your baby: waste of time. Whether the burning of the Earth will result in millions of less fortunate babies dying of malnutrition and heat stroke: worth worrying about.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

justtopost 8y ago

Spoken like a true sleazeball. While I agree, generally that 'stranger danger' is bullshit, and the kid-safing of the world does more harm than good, it does not follow that being surveiled without recourse and being pushed to the fringes of social life is ever ok. I challenge you to elucidate how ad-tracking is not a social and sociatal detriment at best, and a tool for despostim and opression if misused in a rather simple way, as seems to be the case currently.

freehunter 8y ago
I'd be careful calling people names like that around here.
jimmaswell 8y ago
Defense of ad-tracking: increasing value for all parties by making ads more relevant and helping to keep services free. The only significant downside in my opinion is the possibility of data breaches giving the information to identity thieves etc. Otherwise I have no reason to be upset that some computers have determined, without any human involved, that I might be more likely to click on a Cheerios ad than a bicycle ad.
sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
Advertisement improves economic efficiency, resulting in increased prosperity. It’s part of the desperately needed decoupling of economic growth and energy consumption. Whether the parameters of some neural net are trained on the Facebook pictures of your baby you uploaded is entirely insignificant. On the other hand, the psychological harm this author will do to their baby if they raise them with an attitude of fear and anxiety is likely to cause them to suffer greatly. I’m not sure what you mean by “pushed to the fringes” - it seems this author’s isolation is self-imposed. I’m familiar with the ways depression and anxiety can isolate a person, so I’m sympathetic. But it’s often not useful to express that fight-or-flight response by trying to spread your anxieties to others. Learning to distinguish which perceived problems actually matter is important. Most of them can be dealt with inside your head, or by talking them through with someone you trust. Learning to do this has greatly improved my quality of life and my personal relationships.
- mileszim 8y ago
  Removing regulations on financial institutions also improves economic efficiency. It also results in stuff like say, the 2008 housing collapse, or the failure of entire countries (see: Greece). Arguing against privacy protection by claiming its for the benefit of our economy is just rehashing the "free market vs regulated market" argument. Sure, economic efficiency improves. Our wellbeing? Not always. Is ad tracking pervasiveness the same as locking factory workers inside a burning building? Probably not. But we learned well from that mistake almost a century ago. We'll learn from this one too.
  - sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
    These seem like complete non-sequiters, what does ad tracking have to do with mispriced insurance on mortgage-backed securities? How will ad tracking cause the economy to collapse? It seems like you are just bringing up an unrelated traumatic event from the past to scare people. I read that exotic mortgages are making a comeback - maybe congress should focus on that instead of grilling tech CEOs about advertising.
    - mileszim 8y ago
      I see where I wasn't clear in addressing your point--I am not trying to equate ad tracking with securities fraud or workplace ethics disasters, I am comparing their role in shaping our current behaviors and perspectives. In general, we didn't foresee the consequences of derivative markets for mortgage backed securities until it was too late, even though some raised concerns. Now we're very well aware, enacting regulations to hopefully prevent it in the future, as well as provide clear channels for recovery and compensation for damages if it does. In general, we didn't foresee the consequence of unregulated treatment for employees until it was too late, even though some raised concerns. Now we're very well aware, enacting regulations to hopefully prevent it in the future, as well as provide clear channels for recovery and compensation for damages if it does. Comparing that to the tracking market today, we have effectively zero regulation and zero ability for recovery and compensation. We know the tracking market is so pervasive that meaningful living/working today requires submitting yourself to this. We also have articles like this one demonstrating clear concerns. The only thing missing is an understanding of the consequences. We can't ever know the scope of the consequences until they've happened. We can however make predictions (both good and bad). It may be just fine, it may not. Should we take steps now to mitigate the possible bad outcomes? Or should we gamble and let the consequences happen to us? The same argument goes for most civic debate. I don't know what a healthy social and regulatory relationship with the tech looks like. I don't believe anyone does yet. I do know that discussing it like we are now improves our understanding of its complexities, and that's always good. Hope this makes sense. Concerning the remark about congress--they're fully capable of addressing both. No reason for an either/or.

jancsika 8y ago

> The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it. The problem is the web tracking. And spending even a tiny amount of energy reviewing and installing Ublock Origin improves one's mental health in a way that's obvious when observing the browsing patterns of somebody who doesn't block ads. If one wants to extend that obsession down to the source of web tracking and attempt to hide one's behavior from the entire advertising industry, that may run the risk of having a detrimental effect on one's health. But a) there is potentially new information which can be gleaned from trying, and b) one can always scale back to and depend on an easy-to-install set of ad-blocking solutions to filter the worst of it. The only thing you'd save from not worrying at all about web tracking is a small up-front cost of installing an ad-blocker. Those savings pales in comparison to the distractions of being a constant subject to ads.

sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
I don’t have a problem with installing ad blockers. That’s not what the article or my response to it is about at all.

24gttghh 8y ago

>The problem is not the web tracking, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it The problem is not climate change, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it The problem is not the rampant corruption, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it The problem is not ___ ______, the problem is your obsession about it. Stop worrying about it Just give up, right?

sjjshvuiajhz 8y ago
We are destroying the planet, now that’s something worth worrying about! Corruption is also bad, especially when it contributes to important problems like climate change. Obsessing about whether some transistors at Google and Facebook are switched in a way that was influenced by your baby: waste of time. Whether the burning of the Earth will result in millions of less fortunate babies dying of malnutrition and heat stroke: worth worrying about.