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The other day I was arguing this exactly in a thread here about Ruby. People argue that Rails is outdated and is irrelevant for "modern web development", even t

The other day I was arguing this exactly in a thread here about Ruby. People argue that Rails is outdated and is irrelevant for "modern web development", even though the web is not as modern as most people might think. Even what Facebook does, the only really hard part is the sheer scale they operate at. Facebook (the website) is not a single page app and other than the scale could be done in Rails with some AJAX sprinkled in or even Wordpress with some plugins. People use SPA frameworks and make SPAs with them and those SPAs end up functioning exactly the same as any Rails/Django/Laravel site except the URL bar doesn't change. MVC is still the way the web is built, except for the people who got bored and wanted to make web development even harder than it already is. YAGNI.

bryanrasmussen 8y ago
sure, although modern browser apis mean the url bar can change in a reasonable way
- Freak_NL 8y ago
  Having the address bar behave sensibly is one of guiding principles of the Ember JavaScript framework. A good modern SPA framework should be able to handle proper routing out of the box.
- mixmastamyk 8y ago
  What about tabs? SPA can make tabs troublesome. If I can't open a site in tabs it is broken to me.
  - sangnoir 8y ago
    Browser-side routing/state management is a solved problem - SPAs can make tabs troublesome if the developer didn't put in the effort.
    - JetSpiegel 8y ago
      Using web API means tabs work even if the developer doesn't put in the effort.
    - slavak 8y ago
      For God's sake, STOP trying to re-implement my browser's interface with Javascript! I don't want you to "put in the effort" to make my URL bar, back/forward buttons, and tabs work the way they naturally do in my browser; that's what my browser is FOR! Even when the developer does put in the effort, the results are usually _just_ different enough in various subtle ways from the browser's native behviour as to be annoying. Just build a normal website and let my browser do what it was built to do. The APIs that allow SPAs are great and useful. The Pixlr online photo editor has a good reason to be a SPA, and that works great for it. Your forum/email interface/management API would work better as a normal website.
      - sangnoir 8y ago
        > Your forum/email interface/management API would work better as a normal website. Good for you with your fast, always-on internet, I guess. Some consumers have to deal with expensive and unreliable 3G internet (that downgrades to 2G occasionally) - an offline-capable email (or management) SPA is indispensable for them. Sure, you could write 4 native offline apps for MacOS, Windows, iOS and Android but that is a bigger investment than targeting browser standards.
        mixmastamyk 8y ago
        SPA is orthogonal to storage, nor are lightweight web techniques exclusive to it, and often in opposition. Native email clients already exist of course.
  - tracker1 8y ago
    I'm not sure when/why tabs should be an issue... it depends. To me it's a difference between localStorage and sessionStorage for the most part.
    - mixmastamyk 8y ago
      If links don't fully address an item then opening it in a tab won't work.
      - tracker1 8y ago
        That isn't a limitation of SPA or browser based apps though. For that matter, even having an option to open an app multiple times is often a limitation of desktop apps. That doesn't make them somehow deficient as a platform.
        mixmastamyk 8y ago
        It does. You don't open the "app" multiple times, you open lists or records in separate windows and/or tabs. That is a thing in desktop apps also. SPAs usually break it by tunneling everything through a single url, perhaps with anchors.
        tracker1 8y ago
        But opening lists/records in another window/tab isn't a limitation of the browser environment, or SPA in particular. With proper router/caching in place it can be done within a browser app as well.
master_oogway 8y ago
In order to have dynamic UI you either have to use jQuery or SPA library like Vue or similar. For me the major advantage of vuejs over jquery is the way data drives UI
- irrational 8y ago
  But... people had dynamic UIs before jQuery and Vue. The main benefit of jQuery was back in the days when the browsers were so different from each other, but that's not the case anymore. I'd recommend learning some vanilla JS before thinking that you need jQuery/Vue/React to create dynamic UIs.
  - pault 8y ago
    The difference is imperative vs reactive UI. The impact of this is hard to overstate.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- jaredsohn 8y ago
  Why do you need jQuery for this?
  - cpburns2009 8y ago
    You don't strictly need jQuery for this. jQuery simply has a terser API than the standard DOM. That's why I still use it.
bunderbunder 8y ago
I've started thinking of this phenomenon as "blog driven design". It's what happens when you fall into the assumption that what bloggers are writing about is what everyone is (or should be) doing. The problem with that is, blogs are a poor barometer for that sort of thing. Nobody needs to write new blog posts about tried-and-true things that are already plenty well documented. The more solid and stable a technology is, the less incentive there is for anyone to bother writing how-to blogs about it.

bryanrasmussen 8y ago

sure, although modern browser apis mean the url bar can change in a reasonable way

Freak_NL 8y ago
Having the address bar behave sensibly is one of guiding principles of the Ember JavaScript framework. A good modern SPA framework should be able to handle proper routing out of the box.
mixmastamyk 8y ago
What about tabs? SPA can make tabs troublesome. If I can't open a site in tabs it is broken to me.
- sangnoir 8y ago
  Browser-side routing/state management is a solved problem - SPAs can make tabs troublesome if the developer didn't put in the effort.
  - JetSpiegel 8y ago
    Using web API means tabs work even if the developer doesn't put in the effort.
  - slavak 8y ago
    For God's sake, STOP trying to re-implement my browser's interface with Javascript! I don't want you to "put in the effort" to make my URL bar, back/forward buttons, and tabs work the way they naturally do in my browser; that's what my browser is FOR! Even when the developer does put in the effort, the results are usually _just_ different enough in various subtle ways from the browser's native behviour as to be annoying. Just build a normal website and let my browser do what it was built to do. The APIs that allow SPAs are great and useful. The Pixlr online photo editor has a good reason to be a SPA, and that works great for it. Your forum/email interface/management API would work better as a normal website.
    - sangnoir 8y ago
      > Your forum/email interface/management API would work better as a normal website. Good for you with your fast, always-on internet, I guess. Some consumers have to deal with expensive and unreliable 3G internet (that downgrades to 2G occasionally) - an offline-capable email (or management) SPA is indispensable for them. Sure, you could write 4 native offline apps for MacOS, Windows, iOS and Android but that is a bigger investment than targeting browser standards.
      - mixmastamyk 8y ago
        SPA is orthogonal to storage, nor are lightweight web techniques exclusive to it, and often in opposition. Native email clients already exist of course.
- tracker1 8y ago
  I'm not sure when/why tabs should be an issue... it depends. To me it's a difference between localStorage and sessionStorage for the most part.
  - mixmastamyk 8y ago
    If links don't fully address an item then opening it in a tab won't work.
    - tracker1 8y ago
      That isn't a limitation of SPA or browser based apps though. For that matter, even having an option to open an app multiple times is often a limitation of desktop apps. That doesn't make them somehow deficient as a platform.
      - mixmastamyk 8y ago
        It does. You don't open the "app" multiple times, you open lists or records in separate windows and/or tabs. That is a thing in desktop apps also. SPAs usually break it by tunneling everything through a single url, perhaps with anchors.
        tracker1 8y ago
        But opening lists/records in another window/tab isn't a limitation of the browser environment, or SPA in particular. With proper router/caching in place it can be done within a browser app as well.

master_oogway 8y ago

In order to have dynamic UI you either have to use jQuery or SPA library like Vue or similar. For me the major advantage of vuejs over jquery is the way data drives UI

irrational 8y ago
But... people had dynamic UIs before jQuery and Vue. The main benefit of jQuery was back in the days when the browsers were so different from each other, but that's not the case anymore. I'd recommend learning some vanilla JS before thinking that you need jQuery/Vue/React to create dynamic UIs.
- pault 8y ago
  The difference is imperative vs reactive UI. The impact of this is hard to overstate.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
jaredsohn 8y ago
Why do you need jQuery for this?
- cpburns2009 8y ago
  You don't strictly need jQuery for this. jQuery simply has a terser API than the standard DOM. That's why I still use it.

bunderbunder 8y ago

I've started thinking of this phenomenon as "blog driven design". It's what happens when you fall into the assumption that what bloggers are writing about is what everyone is (or should be) doing. The problem with that is, blogs are a poor barometer for that sort of thing. Nobody needs to write new blog posts about tried-and-true things that are already plenty well documented. The more solid and stable a technology is, the less incentive there is for anyone to bother writing how-to blogs about it.