4 ms·

1 watt at close range at 2.4ghz is lethal given enough time. It doesn’t matter that it ionizes or not. It is cooking tissue. The reason it isn’t killing all of

by ohiovr 8y ago

1 watt at close range at 2.4ghz is lethal given enough time. It doesn’t matter that it ionizes or not. It is cooking tissue. The reason it isn’t killing all of us is that the body has time to repair itself between bursts. To say it is harmless is really wishful thinking for engineers. Ok I cannot reply further. My point that cell phone radiation can harm living tissue isn’t untested https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-01/u-s-finds-clear-evidence-cellphone-radiation-causes-rat-tumors https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-11-01/u-s-finds... Look 1 watt doesn’t sound like a lot but touch a one watt resistor sometime. Depending on the size it can burn you. The whole brain only uses about 70 watts.

justinjlynn 8y ago
The problem is that the distinction you're trying to make doesn't practically matter. As best we know now, the non-ionising radiation emitted by approved mobile phone transmitters is so minimally harmful that it is considered harmless. So it might denature a protein here and there, "cooking" an infinitesimally small amount of tissue, but any measurement of this damage, so far, completely lost in the noise. It is, for all practical purposes, as far as we best know now, harmless. > 1 watt at close range at 2.4ghz is lethal given enough time. Well, I'm curious as to how you determined this. It's plausible, so long as the target absorbs everything, radiates nothing, and is incapable of healing. Source?
- basch 8y ago
  Is my phone raising my body temperature more than a shower in the morning, wearing a blanket, cuddling, or going outside in the sun? I dont see how you could realistically call it cooking to warm the skin ever so slightly.
  - justinjlynn 8y ago
    Grossly, no, of course I wouldn't. However, the process of cooking things is essentially the process of using heat to denature and decompose components of tissue. So, it's not technically inaccurate to use the term if only a single protein is denatured by localised heating due to the non-ionising radiation. The point is that to use the term "cooked" in that way in this context is rather absurdly misleading.
    - rplst8 8y ago
      The other part of this "cooked" term we're missing is that microwave energy (RF energy in the 300 MHz to 300 GHz band) only "cooks" things when there is enough energy at the excitation frequency of water molecules. That frequency is around 2.4 or 2.5 GHz. Most cell phones operate in the 700, 800, 900, 1700, 1800, 1900, and 2100 MHz bands.
      - basch 8y ago
        Dont most cell phones connect to wifi?
- ohiovr 8y ago
  See the Bloomberg link I added above recently like most of you I ridiculed the notion that cell phone radiation is harmful. Have you ever had to pull your phone away from your ear when communicating a far away tower because of a very weird sensation. I have. It doesn’t prove anything of course but that I can sense it and that it is not comfortable makes me think Having it near my brain constantly isn’t going to lead to a good outcome.
  - justinjlynn 8y ago
    That's pretty cool - have you been able to duplicate that weird feeling effect? Have others? Has it been double blind tested such that you can actually tell, with no other data, that your phone is transmitting with a higher power? Can you duplicate that same test with others?
  - ohiovr 8y ago
    300+ people have this sensation https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3346470 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3346470 I never saw the discussion before but I thought to google it for myself Was in first page of results I am mentally ill but on this I’m not imagining “things” And no this isn’t cool at all. The tower in question is about 8 miles away. We have few towers where I live. It’s sprint which few of my contacts use.
  - thatcat 8y ago
    It seems that this could be pretty easily mitigated by using a low power bluetooth headset to connect to the nearby cell phone to avoid putting the higher powered signal near your head.
stephen_g 8y ago
That’s just not how it works at all though. It’s not causing any damage, it’s heating your tissue such a small amount that it doesn’t get anywhere near hot enough to ‘cook’ any of it. You would need a lot more power, or an antenna pattern much more focused, and for it to be continuously emitting for a long time while very close to your skin to actually get hot enough to cause burns or denature proteins (which is about the only thing non-ionising radiation can do). But phones don’t transmit all the time, but in bursts, and the antenna pattern spreads the radiation out. Our company builds satellite antennas that focus 25-100W of RF power (in various bands from L band at 1-2GHz up to Ka at 29-31GHz) into about a 1 degree or so beam (big parabolic dish reflector), and at that point you need to take some precautions. I don’t have a single worry about phones.

by ohiovr 8y ago

justinjlynn 8y ago

The problem is that the distinction you're trying to make doesn't practically matter. As best we know now, the non-ionising radiation emitted by approved mobile phone transmitters is so minimally harmful that it is considered harmless. So it might denature a protein here and there, "cooking" an infinitesimally small amount of tissue, but any measurement of this damage, so far, completely lost in the noise. It is, for all practical purposes, as far as we best know now, harmless. > 1 watt at close range at 2.4ghz is lethal given enough time. Well, I'm curious as to how you determined this. It's plausible, so long as the target absorbs everything, radiates nothing, and is incapable of healing. Source?

basch 8y ago
Is my phone raising my body temperature more than a shower in the morning, wearing a blanket, cuddling, or going outside in the sun? I dont see how you could realistically call it cooking to warm the skin ever so slightly.
- justinjlynn 8y ago
  Grossly, no, of course I wouldn't. However, the process of cooking things is essentially the process of using heat to denature and decompose components of tissue. So, it's not technically inaccurate to use the term if only a single protein is denatured by localised heating due to the non-ionising radiation. The point is that to use the term "cooked" in that way in this context is rather absurdly misleading.
  - rplst8 8y ago
    The other part of this "cooked" term we're missing is that microwave energy (RF energy in the 300 MHz to 300 GHz band) only "cooks" things when there is enough energy at the excitation frequency of water molecules. That frequency is around 2.4 or 2.5 GHz. Most cell phones operate in the 700, 800, 900, 1700, 1800, 1900, and 2100 MHz bands.
    - basch 8y ago
      Dont most cell phones connect to wifi?
ohiovr 8y ago
See the Bloomberg link I added above recently like most of you I ridiculed the notion that cell phone radiation is harmful. Have you ever had to pull your phone away from your ear when communicating a far away tower because of a very weird sensation. I have. It doesn’t prove anything of course but that I can sense it and that it is not comfortable makes me think Having it near my brain constantly isn’t going to lead to a good outcome.
- justinjlynn 8y ago
  That's pretty cool - have you been able to duplicate that weird feeling effect? Have others? Has it been double blind tested such that you can actually tell, with no other data, that your phone is transmitting with a higher power? Can you duplicate that same test with others?
- ohiovr 8y ago
  300+ people have this sensation https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3346470 https://discussions.apple.com/thread/3346470 I never saw the discussion before but I thought to google it for myself Was in first page of results I am mentally ill but on this I’m not imagining “things” And no this isn’t cool at all. The tower in question is about 8 miles away. We have few towers where I live. It’s sprint which few of my contacts use.
- thatcat 8y ago
  It seems that this could be pretty easily mitigated by using a low power bluetooth headset to connect to the nearby cell phone to avoid putting the higher powered signal near your head.

stephen_g 8y ago

That’s just not how it works at all though. It’s not causing any damage, it’s heating your tissue such a small amount that it doesn’t get anywhere near hot enough to ‘cook’ any of it. You would need a lot more power, or an antenna pattern much more focused, and for it to be continuously emitting for a long time while very close to your skin to actually get hot enough to cause burns or denature proteins (which is about the only thing non-ionising radiation can do). But phones don’t transmit all the time, but in bursts, and the antenna pattern spreads the radiation out. Our company builds satellite antennas that focus 25-100W of RF power (in various bands from L band at 1-2GHz up to Ka at 29-31GHz) into about a 1 degree or so beam (big parabolic dish reflector), and at that point you need to take some precautions. I don’t have a single worry about phones.