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For some reason I doubt that you have the right perspective. Chinese are very nationalistic and every non immigrant Chinese I met is pro Chinese government. Net

For some reason I doubt that you have the right perspective. Chinese are very nationalistic and every non immigrant Chinese I met is pro Chinese government. Netcitizens are even worse. American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. China is having economic issues, that's the major reason in sales' dip.

iguy 8y ago
Agree that sounds like the leading factor. There is a line of thinking that the trade war comes at a convenient time PR-wise for the Chinese got. It gives them a scapegoat for domestic economic issues, which they are only too happy to talk up. (But I don't really know anything, and welcome expert correction.)
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
ksec 8y ago
The boycott of American products is very real. What we do not know is how large the impact really are. For example Hermes posted a record quarter in China again, doesn't seems to be hurt by whatever downturn there is in China.
- stephencanon 8y ago
  Hermès is French.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    One would expect them to suffer in China as well if the cause were economic, which I believe is the point the parent is making.
    - stephencanon 8y ago
      That’s a reasonable interpretation, thanks. I’m not sure that it tells us much given that Apple and Hermès are in fairly different markets, unfortunately.
      - lern_too_spel 8y ago
        They're both in the luxury fashion market in China.
        stephencanon 8y ago
        The population of people who can justify a $1k scarf is a small portion of the population who can justify $1k for the object they use for almost everything, even in China.
        lern_too_spel 8y ago
        You can buy a scarf that works just as well for much less, and you can buy a phone that works better for Chinese consumers for much less. The reason to buy an iPhone or a Hermès scarf for a Chinese consumer is fashion.
        sonnyblarney 8y ago
        Apple is not quite a luxury good. Hermes is. They are definitely in different categories.
ardy42 8y ago
> American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. Hypocrites exist. The Chinese government was shamelessly hypocritical over the Meng arrest, complaining that it violated her "human rights," [1] while their utter indifference to them has yet again been made clear by the camps in Xinjiang. I doubt everyday nationalistic citizens would be any more thoughtful. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46465768 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46465768: "A Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson told reporters: 'The detention without giving any reason violates a person's human rights.' ... Beijing has itself frequently been accused by rights groups of rights abuses including unexplained detentions" > China is having economic issues, that's the major reason in sales' dip. Nationalistic ferver drummed up by the Huawei arrest could compound the sales drop.
- roboys 8y ago
  Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings). Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are still doing business with Iran and not being penalized for it by the US. This is pure tradewar leverage/thuggery at work. Get ready for "yellow peril" style propaganda (anyone find the SuperMicro spychips yet? I thought we were riddled with them) to make a comeback as China's economy becomes more of a threat to US hegemony.
  - mcphage 8y ago
    > Get ready for "yellow peril" style propaganda (anyone find the SuperMicro spychips yet? I thought we were riddled with them) to make a comeback as China's economy becomes more of a threat to US hegemony. I read that Bloomberg article as more of a swipe at Apple and Amazon than at SuperMicro—especially given the tenor of other articles they've posted, as well as the fact that both companies responded forcefully almost immediately, with no followup or rebuttal from Bloomberg.
roboys 8y ago
China's economy has less to do with iPhone sales decline than the fact that Apple's smartphone innovation has plateaued. There is no "must-have" feature in the current gen iPhone that requires an upgrade, especially not for $1200+. The jig is up. Expect AAPL to decline from now on unless they pivot or get some balls and use that stockpiled cash to experiment heavily. Tim Cook is not willing to burn cash on R &D like he needs to maintain a major competitive edge.

iguy 8y ago

Agree that sounds like the leading factor. There is a line of thinking that the trade war comes at a convenient time PR-wise for the Chinese got. It gives them a scapegoat for domestic economic issues, which they are only too happy to talk up. (But I don't really know anything, and welcome expert correction.)

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

ksec 8y ago

The boycott of American products is very real. What we do not know is how large the impact really are. For example Hermes posted a record quarter in China again, doesn't seems to be hurt by whatever downturn there is in China.

stephencanon 8y ago
Hermès is French.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  One would expect them to suffer in China as well if the cause were economic, which I believe is the point the parent is making.
  - stephencanon 8y ago
    That’s a reasonable interpretation, thanks. I’m not sure that it tells us much given that Apple and Hermès are in fairly different markets, unfortunately.
    - lern_too_spel 8y ago
      They're both in the luxury fashion market in China.
      - stephencanon 8y ago
        The population of people who can justify a $1k scarf is a small portion of the population who can justify $1k for the object they use for almost everything, even in China.
        lern_too_spel 8y ago
        You can buy a scarf that works just as well for much less, and you can buy a phone that works better for Chinese consumers for much less. The reason to buy an iPhone or a Hermès scarf for a Chinese consumer is fashion.
      - sonnyblarney 8y ago
        Apple is not quite a luxury good. Hermes is. They are definitely in different categories.

ardy42 8y ago

> American are persecuting a company that disobeyed American laws on American soil. No a single Chinese would blink an eye about persecuting American companies in China. Hypocrites exist. The Chinese government was shamelessly hypocritical over the Meng arrest, complaining that it violated her "human rights," [1] while their utter indifference to them has yet again been made clear by the camps in Xinjiang. I doubt everyday nationalistic citizens would be any more thoughtful. [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46465768 https://www.bbc.com/news/business-46465768: "A Chinese foreign ministry spokesperson told reporters: 'The detention without giving any reason violates a person's human rights.' ... Beijing has itself frequently been accused by rights groups of rights abuses including unexplained detentions" > China is having economic issues, that's the major reason in sales' dip. Nationalistic ferver drummed up by the Huawei arrest could compound the sales drop.

roboys 8y ago
Camps in Xinjiang have a lot to do with an anti-terrorism effort. Out of the 10 distinct Muslim ethnic groups in China, only one, the Uyghurs, are being put in camps for anti-radicalization efforts due the terrorist activities they engaged in over the last 2+ decades (running over people with cars, attacking businesses & government buildings). Secondly, the Iran sanctions are illegal and most European countries are still doing business with Iran and not being penalized for it by the US. This is pure tradewar leverage/thuggery at work. Get ready for "yellow peril" style propaganda (anyone find the SuperMicro spychips yet? I thought we were riddled with them) to make a comeback as China's economy becomes more of a threat to US hegemony.
- mcphage 8y ago
  > Get ready for "yellow peril" style propaganda (anyone find the SuperMicro spychips yet? I thought we were riddled with them) to make a comeback as China's economy becomes more of a threat to US hegemony. I read that Bloomberg article as more of a swipe at Apple and Amazon than at SuperMicro—especially given the tenor of other articles they've posted, as well as the fact that both companies responded forcefully almost immediately, with no followup or rebuttal from Bloomberg.

roboys 8y ago

China's economy has less to do with iPhone sales decline than the fact that Apple's smartphone innovation has plateaued. There is no "must-have" feature in the current gen iPhone that requires an upgrade, especially not for $1200+. The jig is up. Expect AAPL to decline from now on unless they pivot or get some balls and use that stockpiled cash to experiment heavily. Tim Cook is not willing to burn cash on R &D like he needs to maintain a major competitive edge.