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>"Before shoes were invented, demand for them 'didn't exist'. But I assume you wear them, and would be averse to eliminating them from your life, because they m

>"Before shoes were invented, demand for them 'didn't exist'. But I assume you wear them, and would be averse to eliminating them from your life, because they make your life better." I don't wear shoes because I see ads for them, I wear shoes to protect my feet from the elements and to lessen the impact from walking and running. The demand has been there as long as people have existed, because all people who ever existed have experienced foot pain and damage. It was not some novel need that people only realized because of advertisements. Please note that I am not against personal recommendations and word of mouth, unless it is deliberately manipulative and/or directly financially motivated. >"Do you have a smart phone? How did you find out which smart phone was good? Did the idea for a smart phone emerge unaided into your consciousness, and then you set about asking every individual on earth whether there was a company that made such a device, and then lo and behold you discovered Apple? No. You didn't. You either saw an advertisement, or communicated with someone who did. That's how you found out about nearly every product you own." I do have a smartphone. I found out which model to buy through reading the spec sheets and independent reviews, and by asking friends about their phones and trying them out. As a result, I ended getting a phone that wasn't bogged down by shovelware and actually had the specs I needed, most notably a long battery life. Did some of my friends buy their phones based on ads? Maybe, but now you're severely stretching the definition of ads influencing my purchases. So no, I choose not to let advertising unduly affect my purchasing habits. Of course, this all depends on your definition. If I sign up for a newsletter from a band, and they tell me they have a new album out, is that advertising? Unlike the unwanted advertising you see on billboards, in magazines and online, I explicitly opted in, and I can just as easily opt out again. So I don't consider it advertising, I consider that a subscription to a newsletter. Similarly I also don't consider a manufacturer's product page as advertising, since you have to make an active and deliberate choice to look up the information in question, it is not presented to you unasked and unwanted. I do obviously have a problem with those examples if the information is misleading or otherwise flawed.

darawk 8y ago
> I don't wear shoes because I see ads for them, I wear shoes to protect my feet from the elements and to lessen the impact from walking and running. The demand has been there as long as people have existed, because all people who ever existed have experienced foot pain and damage. It was not some novel need that people only realized because of advertisements. Yes, but someone had to invent them and then tell people about them. If you invent a new product that makes the world better in some substantial way...are you going to rely on word of mouth to get it to the public? > I do have a smartphone. I found out which model to buy through reading the spec sheets and independent reviews, and by asking friends about their phones and trying them out. As a result, I ended getting a phone that wasn't bogged down by shovelware and actually had the specs I needed, most notably a long battery life. Sure, I do the exact same thing. But how did you know you needed a smartphone? You presumably weren't born into the world with a specific thirst for a small rectangle with internet access. Maybe you were personal friends of Steve Jobs, but I certainly wasn't. I found out about it via ad campaigns. And then I researched it and chose the one I wanted. Let's say tomorrow you invent a cure for cancer. Ok great, you've made it possible to substantially improve the world. But in order to actually realize those improvements, people need to know about your cure. Doctors need to be educated. Patients need to be informed. How are you going to accomplish that?
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  Unsolicited advertising in general is immoral. Personal recommendations and solicited advice/help are not. Good ideas spread naturally, they don't need unsolicited advertising.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - darawk 8y ago
    > Unsolicited advertising in general is immoral. So you specifically requested to every media outlet and person that you know, that they inform you if and when someone starts manufacturing small rectangles capable of computing and communicating wirelessly? > Good ideas spread naturally, they don't need unsolicited advertising. This is simply false. There are plenty of good ideas that don't spread even with advertising. If you actually believe this, it doesn't seem like you've actually given this very much thought at all.
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      Just because you personally disagree, that does not mean my ideals are somehow thoughtless or not fully formed. I bought my first mobile phone because I needed to call people when not near a landline, and I chose a Nokia because that's what my parents had and recommended. I got my first smartphone at work, because they wanted us to have email and a web browser available on the go (I work at a major telco), they chose the specific model for me (and have done so for every one of my work phones since). I bought my first smartphone for similar reasons, which I chose because it was the next version of one I had at work. My current phone was chosen because it has longer battery life than the other phones I looked at, which I discovered by looking at spec sheets. Advertising did not play into it, I had specific needs that I wanted to cover, and I sought out the information I needed to make an informed choice. You seem to think that advertising is the primary (or only) source of information about new products and services, which is just blatantly false. I live my life as free from advertising as I can possibly make it. Will some ads inevitably sneak in, as paid-for articles or the like? Sure, but I do try to avoid them whenever possible, it is usually relatively easy to spot product placement or fluff pieces. Everyone should try living without ads everywhere. It's rather nice. I don't care about buying stuff just because I've heard of it. I only buy things if I have specific needs that I need to cover, and I don't impulse buy anything.
kazinator 8y ago
Advertising is so important that no business can survive without it, no matter how good is its product. You might say that this is only because the competing businesses are advertising, whereas that one isn't. That's fair, but in that case, who will decide how trade is conducted, basically? It will have to be your government that decides what kinds of shoes are available on store shelves. Or else, how do you envision it? The shoe store owner gets a personal recommendation from another such owner about which shoes to get wholesale? Based on what factors? Where does that recursion end; how does the first shoe store owner decide what to bring in? How does the shoe factory decide what to make? Is the shoe store allowed to have a billboard, and is that not advertisement? > Maybe, but now you're severely stretching the definition of ads influencing my purchases. A smartphone is made of countless parts which come from a market in which advertising plays a role. Companies making systems-on-a-chip (SoC-s) and other silicon advertise that they have such things available. They don't do so on TV in the middle of sitcoms and football games, of course.
- KozmoNau7 8y ago
  >"Or else, how do you envision it?" Abolish capitalism, currency and wage labor. Extreme? Maybe, but capitalism is to blame for our current extremely unsustainable exploitation of the Earth's resources.
  - darawk 8y ago
    And replace it with what? Hunting and gathering?
    - KozmoNau7 8y ago
      Horizontal democracy, the abolition of nation states, work and resources from each according to ability, to each according to need. The vast majority of hurt and suffering in the world is caused by capitalism.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]

darawk 8y ago

> I don't wear shoes because I see ads for them, I wear shoes to protect my feet from the elements and to lessen the impact from walking and running. The demand has been there as long as people have existed, because all people who ever existed have experienced foot pain and damage. It was not some novel need that people only realized because of advertisements. Yes, but someone had to invent them and then tell people about them. If you invent a new product that makes the world better in some substantial way...are you going to rely on word of mouth to get it to the public? > I do have a smartphone. I found out which model to buy through reading the spec sheets and independent reviews, and by asking friends about their phones and trying them out. As a result, I ended getting a phone that wasn't bogged down by shovelware and actually had the specs I needed, most notably a long battery life. Sure, I do the exact same thing. But how did you know you needed a smartphone? You presumably weren't born into the world with a specific thirst for a small rectangle with internet access. Maybe you were personal friends of Steve Jobs, but I certainly wasn't. I found out about it via ad campaigns. And then I researched it and chose the one I wanted. Let's say tomorrow you invent a cure for cancer. Ok great, you've made it possible to substantially improve the world. But in order to actually realize those improvements, people need to know about your cure. Doctors need to be educated. Patients need to be informed. How are you going to accomplish that?

KozmoNau7 8y ago
Unsolicited advertising in general is immoral. Personal recommendations and solicited advice/help are not. Good ideas spread naturally, they don't need unsolicited advertising.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- darawk 8y ago
  > Unsolicited advertising in general is immoral. So you specifically requested to every media outlet and person that you know, that they inform you if and when someone starts manufacturing small rectangles capable of computing and communicating wirelessly? > Good ideas spread naturally, they don't need unsolicited advertising. This is simply false. There are plenty of good ideas that don't spread even with advertising. If you actually believe this, it doesn't seem like you've actually given this very much thought at all.
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Just because you personally disagree, that does not mean my ideals are somehow thoughtless or not fully formed. I bought my first mobile phone because I needed to call people when not near a landline, and I chose a Nokia because that's what my parents had and recommended. I got my first smartphone at work, because they wanted us to have email and a web browser available on the go (I work at a major telco), they chose the specific model for me (and have done so for every one of my work phones since). I bought my first smartphone for similar reasons, which I chose because it was the next version of one I had at work. My current phone was chosen because it has longer battery life than the other phones I looked at, which I discovered by looking at spec sheets. Advertising did not play into it, I had specific needs that I wanted to cover, and I sought out the information I needed to make an informed choice. You seem to think that advertising is the primary (or only) source of information about new products and services, which is just blatantly false. I live my life as free from advertising as I can possibly make it. Will some ads inevitably sneak in, as paid-for articles or the like? Sure, but I do try to avoid them whenever possible, it is usually relatively easy to spot product placement or fluff pieces. Everyone should try living without ads everywhere. It's rather nice. I don't care about buying stuff just because I've heard of it. I only buy things if I have specific needs that I need to cover, and I don't impulse buy anything.

kazinator 8y ago

Advertising is so important that no business can survive without it, no matter how good is its product. You might say that this is only because the competing businesses are advertising, whereas that one isn't. That's fair, but in that case, who will decide how trade is conducted, basically? It will have to be your government that decides what kinds of shoes are available on store shelves. Or else, how do you envision it? The shoe store owner gets a personal recommendation from another such owner about which shoes to get wholesale? Based on what factors? Where does that recursion end; how does the first shoe store owner decide what to bring in? How does the shoe factory decide what to make? Is the shoe store allowed to have a billboard, and is that not advertisement? > Maybe, but now you're severely stretching the definition of ads influencing my purchases. A smartphone is made of countless parts which come from a market in which advertising plays a role. Companies making systems-on-a-chip (SoC-s) and other silicon advertise that they have such things available. They don't do so on TV in the middle of sitcoms and football games, of course.

KozmoNau7 8y ago
>"Or else, how do you envision it?" Abolish capitalism, currency and wage labor. Extreme? Maybe, but capitalism is to blame for our current extremely unsustainable exploitation of the Earth's resources.
- darawk 8y ago
  And replace it with what? Hunting and gathering?
  - KozmoNau7 8y ago
    Horizontal democracy, the abolition of nation states, work and resources from each according to ability, to each according to need. The vast majority of hurt and suffering in the world is caused by capitalism.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]