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Within China, Apple doesn't compete on price. Yes Huawei has expensive phones, but for example you can buy a Mate 20 Pro for $650 there whereas an iPhone XS cos

Within China, Apple doesn't compete on price. Yes Huawei has expensive phones, but for example you can buy a Mate 20 Pro for $650 there whereas an iPhone XS costs $1,270 for the entry level model. https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/10/26/huawei-mate-20-and-mate-20-pro-chinese-pricing-vs-other-regions/ https://www.gizmochina.com/2018/10/26/huawei-mate-20-and-mat...

baybal2 8y ago
> iPhone XS costs $1,270 for the entry level model. Indeed, but they also have the "3rd world iPhone" models - respins of previous generations and "C" model which were to supposedly cater to this market. They greatly overestimated willingness of locals into buying "poor man's Rolce Royce editions"
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Who would buy a previous generation iPhone when they can buy a modern Android generation phone for the half the price?
  - robin_reala 8y ago
    Because the previous gen iPhone will still be faster than the current gen Android and probably supported for longer?
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Mobile phones are a commodity now and the large majority of consumers use pre-pay phones, replacing them only when they die, get stolen or are lost. So none of those benefits really matter.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Not according to these statistics in the US. https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share
        pjmlp 8y ago
        US is just one country in the global market, which in your link clearly shows as being dominated by Android. I thought we were talking about China here.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Did you look at the charts and the number of countries where iOS has over 40% share?
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Yes, and I have found a minority in a planet where 80% of the world is dominated by Android and a large part of the population can only dream to have a salary comparable to an iPhone cost.
        scarface74 8y ago
        And from a profitability standpoint, the people who are buying $60 Android phones aren't making anyone money besides the carriers. Why go after an unprofitable segment of the market?
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Because eventually there aren't any buyers left willing to spend buckloads of money as Apple is slowing experiencing the mobile version of PC vs Mac. Their back account might hold for a couple of decades to come, but eventually they will need to come up with something else.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Yes because phones last forever. Last I checked, they haven't run out of people to sell Macs to and they have been around for 35 years....u Or are you saying that the "current generation of phones should be enough for anyone", Bill Gates style[1]? And if Apple experience the PC vs Mac “problem” that seems to be a good thing. Apple is the only company making any serious money selling computers while the rest of the PC industry is struggling trying to chase after a few pennies. Apple just reported its highest revenue ever for a quarter selling Macs. [1] Before, I get "well, actuallied", I know there is no proof he ever said that.
    - oblio 8y ago
      Besides the fact that your first point is not necessarily true and the second one is not a major selling point for regular users... If you put an iPhone 8 next to an OnePlus 6T, the iPhone will look like an Ford Model T next to the latest Ford model from 2019. Tech is also fashion, when we carry it around everywhere. And this is besides the fact that Android comes with quite a few of its own benefits, things which you can't find on iPhones.
  - scarface74 8y ago
    A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower. The 6s from 2015 was faster than the flagship Galaxy S8 in single core performance. Also, that Android phone you buy will stop getting updates in 18 months if you’re lucky. The iPhone 5s from 2013 is still running the latest OS.
    - rchaud 8y ago
      > A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower. Slower in doing what? Posting a pic/video on Wechat? Making a money transfer? Playing a game? Phones today are where the PC market was about a decade ago when 4GB RAM and a Core 2 Duo SoCs became common and offered enough performance for users to not have to upgrade their laptop every 3-5 years. We don't have to look at AnandTech-style benchmark analysis anymore to figure out whether a midrange Android in 2019 will serve most needs.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        I just had the pleasure of using my son’s Moto G released in 2018. He was glad to upgrade to my old iPhone 6s.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      Quite the contrary, hardly any performance difference for 90% of the consumers not playing Fortnite on their phones. No one cares about lack of updates on Android phones, only geeks like us. In fact many consumers disable automatic updates with fear that an update will bring a totally new UI to their favourite apps, forcing them to relearn where everything has gone to. Finally, by being much cheaper means that when time comes to upgrade, one gets a shiny new handset without any kind of scratches or half broken screen.
      - scarface74 8y ago
        Like I said below, have you used the 2018 Moto G and compared it to an iPhone that's three years older -- I have. It's downright sluggish doing simple things.
- ulfw 8y ago
  If Apple things Asia would want to buy "3rd world" old iPhones, then they really haven't understood the market. iPhone is a prestige phone. It sells out for months here in Hong Kong. Well. Used to. This year was the first year I could buy it straight in the shop on day one. I knew right then Apple has problems.
- mikestew 8y ago
  They greatly overestimated willingness of locals into buying "poor man's Rolce Royce editions" Being kind of a car guy, I wondered how well it would work for them. Because to this day it stumps me when a luxury car manufacturer makes a budget model. The poster child for that was the Cadillac Cimarron. Take a Chevy Cavalier (one-step-above-the-low-end compact car), stick leather seats and a Cadillac badge on it, sorted. C'mon, Cadillac, people scraping together the money so they can say they own a "Cadillac" are not the people that will be upgrading to an El Dorado later. No, in fact, that they overpaid for a Chevy Cavalier because of a badge means they likely lack the financial sense to ever own a real Cadillac. All you've done is damage your brand, and pissed off Cadillac owners. (Don't get me started on the Jaguar X-type.) In the same vein, the budget model iPhones made me wonder if you're ever going to pull those customers into what is an relatively expensive ecosystem. HN is a poor indicator, but all I've ever heard here is "I like the SE because size" not "hey, I saved a few bucks".
  - baybal2 8y ago
    My guess is that they did not hope to sell a lot to begin with, but just "sells enough to make money"

baybal2 8y ago

> iPhone XS costs $1,270 for the entry level model. Indeed, but they also have the "3rd world iPhone" models - respins of previous generations and "C" model which were to supposedly cater to this market. They greatly overestimated willingness of locals into buying "poor man's Rolce Royce editions"

pjmlp 8y ago
Who would buy a previous generation iPhone when they can buy a modern Android generation phone for the half the price?
- robin_reala 8y ago
  Because the previous gen iPhone will still be faster than the current gen Android and probably supported for longer?
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Mobile phones are a commodity now and the large majority of consumers use pre-pay phones, replacing them only when they die, get stolen or are lost. So none of those benefits really matter.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Not according to these statistics in the US. https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share https://deviceatlas.com/blog/android-v-ios-market-share
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        US is just one country in the global market, which in your link clearly shows as being dominated by Android. I thought we were talking about China here.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Did you look at the charts and the number of countries where iOS has over 40% share?
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Yes, and I have found a minority in a planet where 80% of the world is dominated by Android and a large part of the population can only dream to have a salary comparable to an iPhone cost.
        scarface74 8y ago
        And from a profitability standpoint, the people who are buying $60 Android phones aren't making anyone money besides the carriers. Why go after an unprofitable segment of the market?
        pjmlp 8y ago
        Because eventually there aren't any buyers left willing to spend buckloads of money as Apple is slowing experiencing the mobile version of PC vs Mac. Their back account might hold for a couple of decades to come, but eventually they will need to come up with something else.
        scarface74 8y ago
        Yes because phones last forever. Last I checked, they haven't run out of people to sell Macs to and they have been around for 35 years....u Or are you saying that the "current generation of phones should be enough for anyone", Bill Gates style[1]? And if Apple experience the PC vs Mac “problem” that seems to be a good thing. Apple is the only company making any serious money selling computers while the rest of the PC industry is struggling trying to chase after a few pennies. Apple just reported its highest revenue ever for a quarter selling Macs. [1] Before, I get "well, actuallied", I know there is no proof he ever said that.
  - oblio 8y ago
    Besides the fact that your first point is not necessarily true and the second one is not a major selling point for regular users... If you put an iPhone 8 next to an OnePlus 6T, the iPhone will look like an Ford Model T next to the latest Ford model from 2019. Tech is also fashion, when we carry it around everywhere. And this is besides the fact that Android comes with quite a few of its own benefits, things which you can't find on iPhones.
- scarface74 8y ago
  A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower. The 6s from 2015 was faster than the flagship Galaxy S8 in single core performance. Also, that Android phone you buy will stop getting updates in 18 months if you’re lucky. The iPhone 5s from 2013 is still running the latest OS.
  - rchaud 8y ago
    > A “modern generation” Android phone that is half the price of an iPhone would be much slower. Slower in doing what? Posting a pic/video on Wechat? Making a money transfer? Playing a game? Phones today are where the PC market was about a decade ago when 4GB RAM and a Core 2 Duo SoCs became common and offered enough performance for users to not have to upgrade their laptop every 3-5 years. We don't have to look at AnandTech-style benchmark analysis anymore to figure out whether a midrange Android in 2019 will serve most needs.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      I just had the pleasure of using my son’s Moto G released in 2018. He was glad to upgrade to my old iPhone 6s.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Quite the contrary, hardly any performance difference for 90% of the consumers not playing Fortnite on their phones. No one cares about lack of updates on Android phones, only geeks like us. In fact many consumers disable automatic updates with fear that an update will bring a totally new UI to their favourite apps, forcing them to relearn where everything has gone to. Finally, by being much cheaper means that when time comes to upgrade, one gets a shiny new handset without any kind of scratches or half broken screen.
    - scarface74 8y ago
      Like I said below, have you used the 2018 Moto G and compared it to an iPhone that's three years older -- I have. It's downright sluggish doing simple things.
ulfw 8y ago
If Apple things Asia would want to buy "3rd world" old iPhones, then they really haven't understood the market. iPhone is a prestige phone. It sells out for months here in Hong Kong. Well. Used to. This year was the first year I could buy it straight in the shop on day one. I knew right then Apple has problems.
mikestew 8y ago
They greatly overestimated willingness of locals into buying "poor man's Rolce Royce editions" Being kind of a car guy, I wondered how well it would work for them. Because to this day it stumps me when a luxury car manufacturer makes a budget model. The poster child for that was the Cadillac Cimarron. Take a Chevy Cavalier (one-step-above-the-low-end compact car), stick leather seats and a Cadillac badge on it, sorted. C'mon, Cadillac, people scraping together the money so they can say they own a "Cadillac" are not the people that will be upgrading to an El Dorado later. No, in fact, that they overpaid for a Chevy Cavalier because of a badge means they likely lack the financial sense to ever own a real Cadillac. All you've done is damage your brand, and pissed off Cadillac owners. (Don't get me started on the Jaguar X-type.) In the same vein, the budget model iPhones made me wonder if you're ever going to pull those customers into what is an relatively expensive ecosystem. HN is a poor indicator, but all I've ever heard here is "I like the SE because size" not "hey, I saved a few bucks".
- baybal2 8y ago
  My guess is that they did not hope to sell a lot to begin with, but just "sells enough to make money"