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> The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party. Does one really need
by ancorevard 8y ago
> The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party.
Does one really need references for this?
Aren't everyone aware of the massive socialist experimentations Mao executed on China's people?
The lowest estimate available is that 50 million people were killed (high end estimate closer to 80 million dead) due to political purges (cultural revolution etc.) and starvation (socialize farming, great leap forward, etc.).
- entity345 8y agoWhy are you picking on this and ignoring my original comment? Simpler to repeat the same thing again and again without thinking, isn't it? I thought mature discussions was what HN was about. I'm sorry to see that bigotry is rife.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- JohnJamesRambo 8y agoBringing up a fact of 50-80 million lives lost is not “picking on” something.
- entity345 8y agoNow, that's pure bad faith. The point is that that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. I find amusing that those so vocal against that period of Chinese history use the exact same methods to destroy critical discussion.
- vetinari 8y agoThe number of 50-80 million comes from the book "Black Book of Communism", which in itself is highly controversial and whose co-authors disassociated themselves from the author due to the methodology used. So take these numbers with grain of salt and consider the book and its claim just a propaganda tool.
- ekianjo 8y ago> It is widely regarded by historians that The Great Leap resulted in tens of millions of deaths.[3] A lower-end estimate is 18 million, while extensive research by Chinese historian Yu Xiguang suggests the death toll from the movement is closer to 55.6 million.[4] Fellow historian Frank Dikötter asserts that "coercion, terror, and systematic violence were the foundation of the Great Leap Forward" and it "motivated one of the most deadly mass killings of human history".[5] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward So your point is? Regardless of the actual figures, it was probably the worst genocide of History.
- vetinari 8y agoMy point is, it is easy to claim ridiculous numbers, but much harder to prove them. It doesn't help the case, if they numbers are inflated for the shock value.
- Synaesthesia 8y agoA great deal of those died due to a famine. If one compares China’s development with India’s you see that over 100 million extra Indians have died since 1947 due to worse medical outcomes. (Amyarta Sen)
- ekianjo 8y agoThe famine was a result of collectivization, which had led to disastrous results in other countries which tried that before: such as the USSR experiments in Ukraine. Plus: > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Consequences https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward#Consequence... > The failure of agricultural policies, the movement of farmers from agricultural to industrial work, and weather conditions led to millions of deaths from severe famine. Many also died from quota-based executions instituted by government officials. The economy, which had improved since the end of the civil war, was devastated.
- adriveatrain 8y agoThere is also an estimate of 50 million dead as a result of starvation as a consequence of the colonial invasions of China in the late 19th C See Mike Davis' Late Victorian Holocausts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Victorian_Holocausts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Victorian_Holocausts