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Next headlines: 2020: European Car Shipments Plunge in China as XXX(#) Tightens Grip 2025: Tesla Car Shipments Plunge in China as YYY(#) Tightens Grip (#) An

Next headlines: 2020: European Car Shipments Plunge in China as XXX(#) Tightens Grip 2025: Tesla Car Shipments Plunge in China as YYY(#) Tightens Grip (#) Any local company currently in favor with the ruling party.

entity345 8y ago
That's simplistic. People forget, or simply don't know, that Chinese are extremely patriotic and that they remember how "the foreign powers" treated them in the past. Considering what's happening between the US and China, and about Huawei, we can't discard the possibility that Chinese consumers reacted by supporting their country.
- ekianjo 8y ago
  > that Chinese are extremely patriotic Like in most countries where education is tightly controlled by the government, patriotism is a result of state propaganda. > how "the foreign powers" treated them in the past. The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party.
  - entity345 8y ago
    Talking about propaganda, you must have been subjected to massive quantities to write such a reply that provides no counter arguments and that is completely ignoring the points made, not to mention how ignorant it is. Sad, really.
    - ancorevard 8y ago
      > The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party. Does one really need references for this? Aren't everyone aware of the massive socialist experimentations Mao executed on China's people? The lowest estimate available is that 50 million people were killed (high end estimate closer to 80 million dead) due to political purges (cultural revolution etc.) and starvation (socialize farming, great leap forward, etc.).
      - entity345 8y ago
        Why are you picking on this and ignoring my original comment? Simpler to repeat the same thing again and again without thinking, isn't it? I thought mature discussions was what HN was about. I'm sorry to see that bigotry is rife.
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
        Bringing up a fact of 50-80 million lives lost is not “picking on” something.
        entity345 8y ago
        Now, that's pure bad faith. The point is that that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. I find amusing that those so vocal against that period of Chinese history use the exact same methods to destroy critical discussion.
        vetinari 8y ago
        The number of 50-80 million comes from the book "Black Book of Communism", which in itself is highly controversial and whose co-authors disassociated themselves from the author due to the methodology used. So take these numbers with grain of salt and consider the book and its claim just a propaganda tool.
        ekianjo 8y ago
        > It is widely regarded by historians that The Great Leap resulted in tens of millions of deaths.[3] A lower-end estimate is 18 million, while extensive research by Chinese historian Yu Xiguang suggests the death toll from the movement is closer to 55.6 million.[4] Fellow historian Frank Dikötter asserts that "coercion, terror, and systematic violence were the foundation of the Great Leap Forward" and it "motivated one of the most deadly mass killings of human history".[5] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward So your point is? Regardless of the actual figures, it was probably the worst genocide of History.
  - Synaesthesia 8y ago
    I don't know if you know the colonial history of China.
    - darkpuma 8y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation#Implications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation#Implica...
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      Let me share with you some interesting piece of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward
      - madengr 8y ago
        Wow, struggle sessions. Sounds like the management style at my employer.
  - puranjay 8y ago
    Your comment sounds awfully like colonial revisionism
- threeseed 8y ago
  People also forget that they shouldn't speak for a billion odd people. It's a big country with a lot of diversity both culturally and socioeconomically. The facts we do know are that (a) price affects sales, (b) China has a lot of well made, value focused phones and (c) Apple has already acknowledged their iPhones are expensive.
  - entity345 8y ago
    China is extremely homogeneous on the points I raised. I did not claim that they were the cause of the drop but simply that these are factors that may also be at play.
    - junket_operator 8y ago
      North is much more patriotic and aligned with the nationalistic one China narrative than the South. If you have lived in the South, you can encounter more ambivalent view. CPC puts huge effort to maintain the illusion of unity. The recent ramp up effort to suppress Cantonese is just one example. 80 million people (equal to the population of Germany) speaks Cantonese. Overall 400 million Chinese still can't speak Mandarin.
    - raverbashing 8y ago
      > China is extremely homogeneous on the points I raised. Yes, those who disagree are sent to be "reeducated"
      - entity345 8y ago
        I'm living this 'discussion' now. The reactions to my comment are absolutely appalling.
        raverbashing 8y ago
        "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" "Then stop doing it"
- Aloha 8y ago
  When did these foreign powers mistreat China? The 19th century? Most nationals cultural memories are not that long - specifically one that has been thru three major revolutions in a century. Whatever the cause of lower iPhone sales, I'm skeptical it's what you claim - sunspots seem more likely to me.
  - azurezyq 8y ago
    It's 20th century and we will never forget. I agree that some leaders were stupid but we generally agree they are our own business. I'm not surprised that Xi may one day be overthrown. but with some new government, we are still patriotic. Basically it's because our thousands of years of history doesn't allow us from being discriminated by anyone, IMO. For iPhones, I'd say they're just not sexy. The design and color are boring. Super expensive for the hardware you get. Also Apple's ecosystem doesn't really matter in China. WeChat and a few apps make iPhones and Android roughly same experience.
    - saiya-jin 8y ago
      > It's 20th century and we will never forget. You mean Japanese in WW II? Bear in mind that generally, regardless of the country, being raised as overly patriotic equals to being brainwashed by educational system into lies and selective semi-truths about your history, the politics and what is actually happening in the world. Makes a good army of obedient robots, but not much more. In long term, it screws up given nation/group of people since reality will eventually bite back.
    - woah 8y ago
      Regardless of what happened in history, people will only know about it if they are taught it. I assume that knowledge about the failings and oppression by the CCP is not taught in school. It’s also well known that the current Chinese government has the biggest censorship and propaganda system in the world. So the Chinese people’s opinion is relevant in that it is what they think, but it is also not necessarily a reflection of more than their government’s propaganda efforts.
  - yling234 8y ago
Panoramix 8y ago
In my opinion Huawei has better products than Apple so this is not surprising.
Krasnol 8y ago
https://www.volkswagenag.com/de/news/2019/01/VW_China_deliveries_2018.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/de/news/2019/01/VW_China_delive...

entity345 8y ago

That's simplistic. People forget, or simply don't know, that Chinese are extremely patriotic and that they remember how "the foreign powers" treated them in the past. Considering what's happening between the US and China, and about Huawei, we can't discard the possibility that Chinese consumers reacted by supporting their country.

ekianjo 8y ago
> that Chinese are extremely patriotic Like in most countries where education is tightly controlled by the government, patriotism is a result of state propaganda. > how "the foreign powers" treated them in the past. The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party.
- entity345 8y ago
  Talking about propaganda, you must have been subjected to massive quantities to write such a reply that provides no counter arguments and that is completely ignoring the points made, not to mention how ignorant it is. Sad, really.
  - ancorevard 8y ago
    > The worst thing that happened to Chinese was not the way foreign powers treated them, but what came after under their own ruling party. Does one really need references for this? Aren't everyone aware of the massive socialist experimentations Mao executed on China's people? The lowest estimate available is that 50 million people were killed (high end estimate closer to 80 million dead) due to political purges (cultural revolution etc.) and starvation (socialize farming, great leap forward, etc.).
    - entity345 8y ago
      Why are you picking on this and ignoring my original comment? Simpler to repeat the same thing again and again without thinking, isn't it? I thought mature discussions was what HN was about. I'm sorry to see that bigotry is rife.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
        Bringing up a fact of 50-80 million lives lost is not “picking on” something.
        entity345 8y ago
        Now, that's pure bad faith. The point is that that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion. I find amusing that those so vocal against that period of Chinese history use the exact same methods to destroy critical discussion.
        vetinari 8y ago
        The number of 50-80 million comes from the book "Black Book of Communism", which in itself is highly controversial and whose co-authors disassociated themselves from the author due to the methodology used. So take these numbers with grain of salt and consider the book and its claim just a propaganda tool.
        ekianjo 8y ago
        > It is widely regarded by historians that The Great Leap resulted in tens of millions of deaths.[3] A lower-end estimate is 18 million, while extensive research by Chinese historian Yu Xiguang suggests the death toll from the movement is closer to 55.6 million.[4] Fellow historian Frank Dikötter asserts that "coercion, terror, and systematic violence were the foundation of the Great Leap Forward" and it "motivated one of the most deadly mass killings of human history".[5] > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward So your point is? Regardless of the actual figures, it was probably the worst genocide of History.
- Synaesthesia 8y ago
  I don't know if you know the colonial history of China.
  - darkpuma 8y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation#Implications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Century_of_humiliation#Implica...
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    Let me share with you some interesting piece of history: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Leap_Forward
    - madengr 8y ago
      Wow, struggle sessions. Sounds like the management style at my employer.
- puranjay 8y ago
  Your comment sounds awfully like colonial revisionism
threeseed 8y ago
People also forget that they shouldn't speak for a billion odd people. It's a big country with a lot of diversity both culturally and socioeconomically. The facts we do know are that (a) price affects sales, (b) China has a lot of well made, value focused phones and (c) Apple has already acknowledged their iPhones are expensive.
- entity345 8y ago
  China is extremely homogeneous on the points I raised. I did not claim that they were the cause of the drop but simply that these are factors that may also be at play.
  - junket_operator 8y ago
    North is much more patriotic and aligned with the nationalistic one China narrative than the South. If you have lived in the South, you can encounter more ambivalent view. CPC puts huge effort to maintain the illusion of unity. The recent ramp up effort to suppress Cantonese is just one example. 80 million people (equal to the population of Germany) speaks Cantonese. Overall 400 million Chinese still can't speak Mandarin.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    > China is extremely homogeneous on the points I raised. Yes, those who disagree are sent to be "reeducated"
    - entity345 8y ago
      I'm living this 'discussion' now. The reactions to my comment are absolutely appalling.
      - raverbashing 8y ago
        "Doctor, it hurts when I do this" "Then stop doing it"
Aloha 8y ago
When did these foreign powers mistreat China? The 19th century? Most nationals cultural memories are not that long - specifically one that has been thru three major revolutions in a century. Whatever the cause of lower iPhone sales, I'm skeptical it's what you claim - sunspots seem more likely to me.
- azurezyq 8y ago
  It's 20th century and we will never forget. I agree that some leaders were stupid but we generally agree they are our own business. I'm not surprised that Xi may one day be overthrown. but with some new government, we are still patriotic. Basically it's because our thousands of years of history doesn't allow us from being discriminated by anyone, IMO. For iPhones, I'd say they're just not sexy. The design and color are boring. Super expensive for the hardware you get. Also Apple's ecosystem doesn't really matter in China. WeChat and a few apps make iPhones and Android roughly same experience.
  - saiya-jin 8y ago
    > It's 20th century and we will never forget. You mean Japanese in WW II? Bear in mind that generally, regardless of the country, being raised as overly patriotic equals to being brainwashed by educational system into lies and selective semi-truths about your history, the politics and what is actually happening in the world. Makes a good army of obedient robots, but not much more. In long term, it screws up given nation/group of people since reality will eventually bite back.
  - woah 8y ago
    Regardless of what happened in history, people will only know about it if they are taught it. I assume that knowledge about the failings and oppression by the CCP is not taught in school. It’s also well known that the current Chinese government has the biggest censorship and propaganda system in the world. So the Chinese people’s opinion is relevant in that it is what they think, but it is also not necessarily a reflection of more than their government’s propaganda efforts.
- yling234 8y ago

Panoramix 8y ago

In my opinion Huawei has better products than Apple so this is not surprising.

Krasnol 8y ago

https://www.volkswagenag.com/de/news/2019/01/VW_China_deliveries_2018.html https://www.volkswagenag.com/de/news/2019/01/VW_China_delive...