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Undercover spy exposed in NYC was one of many
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- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago> When mysterious operatives lured two cybersecurity researchers to meetings at luxury hotels over the past two months How does one go about luring cybersecurity reaserchers? Surely a cybersecurity researcher is not you’re average mark? Luring is generally something an adversary does to an one who is unsuspecting. I wouldn’t go so far as to say the us of the word is dishonest, but it sure seems to be leaning toward hyperbolic, or histrionic. Maybe targeted would be a better word?
- pizza 8y agoThey got baited by the spies presenting themselves as investors, it fits imo. Furthermore I think people who are well-practiced in HUMINT and academics/researchers building up a legal case against a hacking group don't really overlap that much.
- walrus01 8y agoI don't know if a lot of academics/researchers would be able to explain even the basic concepts of "MICE" if asked. They're a soft target.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y agoI’m not security expert, so I had to look that up. MICE: Money, Ideology, Compromise or Coercion (depending on source), and Ego or Extortion (depending on source). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motives_for_spying
- DGAP 8y agoSomewhat ironically, the Israelis have their own, cruder, initialism for this.
- DGAP 8y agoHence the organizing of entire overseas conferences in order to lure them in.
- FuckOffNeemo 8y agoI recall reading a similar article regarding Citizen Lab where the researchers were also baited through interviews for new positions or capital/sponsorship in their relevant studies. Edit, found the previous HN article (this is the same article but on a different site, the NY Times article is no longer accessible): https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/citizen-lab-toronto-undercover-israeli-software-1.4994068 https://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/citizen-lab-toronto-under... HN discussion: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19006477 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19006477
- greglindahl 8y agoThe article this discussion is about starts with a mention of Citizen Lab. It's true that the first sentence doesn't directly mention Citizen Lab, but it's tied together starting with the 8th paragraph.
- Thorrez 8y agoCreate a fake identity, fake company, then contact the researcher claiming you want to hire him/her. Get the researcher to come to a restaurant and secretly record the meeting while using leading questions to try to force the researcher into saying unpleasant things.
- icelancer 8y ago> luring cybersecurity reaserchers In the same way you do it in Silicon Valley - pretend to be a member of a VC fund with a lot of money. Plenty of people have been duped into giving up secrets and product ideas to fake and real VC members.
- walrus01 8y ago> How does one go about luring cybersecurity reaserchers? Given the overwhelmingly male demographic of people who describe themselves as "cybersecurity researchers", probably with $2000 escorts and hotel rooms rigged with cameras. It's not rocket science, literally one of the oldest espionage compromat tricks in the book.
- justtopost 8y agoNo need to count out the females of SV being lured by that scenario either. Lets not be sexist, when both sexes sex.
- _underfl0w_ 8y agoPretty sure escorts also come in the "male" variety. ...not that I would know...
- walrus01 8y agoNote that I didn't specify gender of the escort, either way is equally possible once a person's orientation has been identified.
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- rdtsc 8y ago> The targets told the AP that the covert agents tried to goad them into making racist and anti-Israel remarks or revealing sensitive information about their work in connection with the lawsuits. Presumably they recorded the meeting with a hidden camera and planned on blackmailing the researchers into altering or stopping their research. It must be an effective tactic, because that's just so blatant and obvious. > one man caught up in the litigation said he recognized Almog-Assouline because he’d been approached by the same operative under a different identity several years ago. “I recognized the individual, down to the accent and the anecdotes,” said the man, who spoke on condition of anonymity for fear of retaliation. Hmm, I wonder if they did manage to find something to blackmail him with and that's what he means by retaliation and hopefully not something more sinister...
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- ngcc_hk 8y agoInteresting but is it state sponsored? At least civil not ...
- anon007 8y agoI personally was approached by what I now believe was an undercover spy agent in San Francisco. I believe he might have been Israeli. How we got there is a long story. But, the person (agent) came to a coffee shop that I frequented and made himself very visible talking audibly about certain areas that were my interest. I'm a very outgoing person so after over-hearing him by the second or third encounter there, I approached him or he approached me by asking to share a table. Don't fully remember. After several meetings, he tried to goad me into saying things which were utterly antisemitic and anti-Israel. So I started to suspect something was off and those days I had a very good memory and I started noticing some contradictory stories from meetings to meetings. So suspecting something was wrong, I dropped all contact. Then he started calling me and asking me why I'm not coming to the coffee shop anymore and used other phone numbers that were not identified as his to try to call me. After a while of ignoring him, he stopped calling. But, the whole experience was rather strange and made me realize how easy it is for the Israelis to run a spy network (or a soft spy network) in the open. So when I see stories like these, I'm not only not surprised but I'm wondering why there are not more of these published on the press. edit some related news: 1 - An Israeli spy firm was reportedly hired to dig up dirt on ex-Obama aides involved in the Iran deal - https://www.vox.com/world/2018/5/7/17327278/ben-rhodes-black-cube-iran-deal https://www.vox.com/world/2018/5/7/17327278/ben-rhodes-black... 2 - UK campaign to smear Corbyn. Note, the source here might be a biased here as they're fighting what they perceived to be Israeli occupation - https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/new-challenge-israels-effort-undermine-jeremy-corbyn https://electronicintifada.net/blogs/asa-winstanley/new-chal... 3 - Additional reporting on Israeli spying on American citizens - https://www.thenation.com/article/how-israel-spies-on-us-citizens/ https://www.thenation.com/article/how-israel-spies-on-us-cit...
- jorblumesea 8y agoPlease report this to a local FBI office, this was obviously an agent trying to co-opt whatever movement you're associated with.
- tomjakubowski 8y ago"Ah, glad to hear Agent Johnson's been doing his job."
- walrus01 8y agoMore on the firm named in the article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Cube https://www.timesofisrael.com/cambridge-analytica-linked-businessman-helped-start-black-cube-lawsuit-claims/ https://www.timesofisrael.com/cambridge-analytica-linked-bus... https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5397148,00.html https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-5397148,00.html Why am I not surprised that it's linked to Cambridge Analytica?
- Simon321 8y agoNot just that but they also seem linked to the Bezos incident! https://www.philly.com/opinion/commentary/jeff-bezos-national-enquirer-donald-trump-blackmail-saudi-arabia-20190210.html https://www.philly.com/opinion/commentary/jeff-bezos-nationa...
- andreasley 8y agoI think you are confusing them with "Blackwater". The article doesn't mention "Black Cube".
- Simon321 8y agoI mean NSO, not Black Cube.
- pwaai 8y agoWhy is it always Israel or Israelis involved with these type of stories? What are Israeli's so afraid of? Another Holocaust? Arab invasion? Definitely justified fear but I'm sure many other country has similar spy rings and employ similar methods but Israel definitely comes up on top of this trade. I guess being successful at tradecraft automatically means you are above the normal Judeo-Christian morality that is preached upon the rest of the people while the elite enjoy unchecked, boundless power which they deploy to keep their position. But you look at world wars, ethnic cleansings and the history of hostility between different groups, you will find strange patterns. For instance, it was estimated that the European settlers committed the biggest Holocaust of all upon the Native Americans number in 50+ million in just a span of a 100 years systematically. Then you have weird freak events like WW1, WW2. Maybe this is Karma at play. Like the opiod epidemic impacting white demographics more than other groups in the UK and US, seems like strangely ironic--once the Sick man of Asia, now the synthetic drug manufacturer of America. edit: and as predicted my comment gets flagged for dare mentioning maybe Karma is real.
- dang 8y agoThis comment was correctly flagged because it crosses into ideological and nationalistic (or racial or religious, your call) flamewar, as well as veering onto grandiose tangents that are way off topic. All of this is bad for intellectual curiosity, which is the core principle here, so please don't post like this to Hacker News. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- bayesian_horse 8y agoMore than one spy in NYC? I am shocked!
- ahmedalsudani 8y agoYou'd do well to read the article and understand what's being discussed. The headline is supposed to be short and not convey the entire story.
- sgregnt 8y agoAP is well know for its anti Israeli agenda.
- mschuster91 8y agoReporting on Israeli espionage stuff is not anti-Israeli per se. The Israelis are just, next to the US/5 Eyes and China/Russia, the most capable nations on Earth when it comes to espionage skills and scope of their programs. And every so often, scandals get dragged through the media. The US / 5 Eyes had Snowden, Russia the whole Trump/Democrat email hacking, China a boatload of industrial espionage and now it's this Israeli half-scandal here. I would not throw this into the bin with the usual anti-Israeli agenda pieces that arise e.g. with reports about the Palestine conflict.
- j16sdiz 8y agoI think AP is neutral. They are cooperative association -- every member submit whatever they see fit.
- ajkjk 8y agoWhat is the... point... of all this? It seems like a lot of money spent on, what, finding out not-very-secret information from journalists?
- alkibiades 8y agoblackmail
- deanclatworthy 8y agoWhen key figures in a legal case can be manipulated, you can often affect the outcome. There are countless instances of this across all legal systems across the globe, across pretty much all of civilisation.
- deanclatworthy 8y agoFor those interested in the activities of Mossad there’s a great documentary on Netflix at the moment called “Inside the Mossad”. They talk a lot about the tactics used in this article. I presume the operatives in this scenario are all ex-Mossad.
- avip 8y agoTo clarify: NSO is a private company, mostly owned by US firm. The involvement of "Israel" in whatever NSO is doing is as follows: 1. As a vendor of security sensitive products, any NSO deal would be approved by Israel's MOD. 2. They naturally employ loads of secret service "graduates" because it's good for business. Consequently, calling an apparently clumsy NSO employee "an Israeli spy" comes across as kind of fake news. Not to say there aren't Israeli spies in NY, I just don't think he's one of them.
- inglor 8y agoI’m not sure why this is downvoted - this is absolutely true. NSO is a private company who is US owned and at odds with the Israeli government often. As an Israeli I’m pretty confident Israel would not send spies in order to do things related to NSO’s private business. If anything - these are US spies and not Israeli ones. It just doesn’t make sense for Israel to do this. Not that Israel doesn’t do shabby spywork or it’s ethically above this - just not for NSO.
- baybal2 8y ago> NSO is a private company who is US owned and at odds with the Israeli government often. But is stuffed full of ex-officers from Israel's military. Don't you find it odd? Why they seem to keep coming, while at the same time switching back and forth in between army and "civilian" career? That's a rather dumb cover.
- justmadethislol 8y ago>I sense some anti-isreali sentiment among somewhat valid criticism right there. oy vey, we can't have any anti-israeli sentiments, now can we, goy? you don't think Our Greatest Ally™ would do us wrong, now do you, goy?
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- bouncycastle 8y agoExcuse me, but isn't "undercover" redundant in "undercover spy"?.. I mean, all spies work undercover :-)
- ConcernedCoder 8y agoI actually liked "talking audibly" better... it reminded me of the movie "Naked Lunch" where Bill Lee was conversing "telepathically" about something completely different from the inane verbal chit-chat he was having with Tom Frost in the medina... http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/adiab/clips/FF_Cronenberg_NakedLunch_POV.mp4/view http://www.criticalcommons.org/Members/adiab/clips/FF_Cronen...
- darkpuma 8y agoNot really, some spies have official diplomatic status. Their public job title may not be "spy", but it's generally assumed that the host country knows what's up.
- wycy 8y agoThere are spies with official cover and non-official cover[0]--the latter of which is normally to what "undercover spy" refers. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-official_cover https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-official_cover
- secfirstmd 8y agoAlso spies is really an overarching term and means shedloads of different things in reality. I mean if you break it down in the simplest way possible (for example what the public see on TV and call a spy), what they are seeing is various people who are: -Handler -Agent -Agent of influence -Analyst -Mobile Surveillance Officer -Tech officer etc etc etc
- aedron 8y ago'By Way of Deception', written years ago by a former high ranking Mossad officer, made it seem like American government institutions in NY and Washington were crawling with Israeli intelligence, some acknowledged, many not. The book was well sourced and generally considered credible.
- arminiusreturns 8y agoI wonder what the media would say of there were as many dual citizenship Russians in Congress as there are dual citizenship Israelis... Yet, not a peep... but you can be sure "ze Russians are coming"!
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- duffie 8y agoSo if I/anyone gets lured to a luxury hotel, don't go.
- JackPoach 8y agoEveryone spies on everyone. It's a fact of life nowadays.
- anthony90 8y agohackers should help us defat proget zorgo there tryinig to take over youtube
- anthony90 8y agoall hackers take over proget zorgo
- secfirstmd 8y agoHaving worked on Israel/Palestine human rights issues over the years and protected organisations who have been targeted by Israeli private/state intelligence due to their work. Here are just a few other methods our organisation has seen used against well respected human rights defenders (all of these are confirmed by the way, not speculation): -Sending people to their homes claiming to sell paintings, usually in order to fix their location, get current pictures of them, ask neighbours questions, scope their homes and/or offices etc. -Sending of verbal and written death threats. Calls on phone, stuff sent in the post. -Covert entry operations against individual's homes and/or offices -Following and open photography of human rights defenders (living in European cities) and their children in parks and outside schools. -Pictures or knowledge of their children, schools etc sent to them. -Smear campaigns design to make them look like terrorists (even through they were human rights defenders / lawyers) sent to people in their community. Designed to make them either look radical or in some cases attack them on a personal level (sexual in a conservative community). Sometimes this included organised protests against offices based upon totally false representation. -Overt and covert physical surveillance of them as they travelled to and from their place of work and home. -Doxing of their personal details online so people knew where they lived and called -Threats made to them based upon knowledge that likely could only have been gathered through bugging and in other cases insider threats. -Attempts to entrap individuals with online conversations (personal/sexual information etc) -Abuse of flight stop lists and other measures to prevent people doing their work and travel. -Abuse of bank, company, charity, data protection complaints etc to try to harass them in their work -Abuse of medical healthcare (e.g allowing relatives who live in Gaza to travel to get urgent cancer/heart treatment) to pressure individuals to stop investigating human rights abuses. -Sending of fake journalists etc as send above. -Malware etc as above. Also DDoS, orchestrated campaigns online etc
- gowld 8y agoHeh, coming on the heels of MLK day, this looks like the table of contents of the USA FBI playbook for civil rights advocates.
- secfirstmd 8y ago
- Dirlewanger 8y agoYou know what would start to stop all this? Getting pissed off at politicians for accepting essentially blank check amounts from AIPAC, who have been the largest lobbyist in Congress for decades. People don't want to talk about this though, because it's invariably labeled as "antisemitic".
- seagullz 8y agoNot just the politicians, much of the mainstream press too. Exhibit: that NSA shares US citizen's private data with Israeli spooks is not newsworthy to NYT [0], even though Israeli paper Haaretz thinks otherwise [1]. [0] https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/new-york-times-nsa-israel-not-significant/ https://www.dailydot.com/layer8/new-york-times-nsa-israel-no... [1] https://www.haaretz.com/report-nsa-sharing-u-s-citizens-data-with-israel-1.5333166 https://www.haaretz.com/report-nsa-sharing-u-s-citizens-data...
- chozenlarusso 8y agoAnd HN just turned into reddit. The jews and their magic money, right? AIPAC spent 3.5 million on lobbying in 2018. Do you have any idea how infinitesimal that is? https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D000046963&year=2018 https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/clientsum.php?id=D00004696... There was $5.7 billion dollars spent on lobbying during the mid term elections. https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/02/cost-of-2018-election-5pnt7bil/ https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2019/02/cost-of-2018-electi... In 2018, Google spent $21 million https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s&showYear=2018 https://www.opensecrets.org/lobby/top.php?indexType=s&showYe... The Healthcare industry spent $556 million The Mexican government spent 2.3 million https://www.opensecrets.org/fara/countries/87 https://www.opensecrets.org/fara/countries/87 But AIPAC is by far and away the real problem.
- maconic 8y agoI'm a little late to the conversation, but this seems to be hijacked into an anti-Israel/anti-Semitic discussion rather than about spying, so I'd like to suggest one (hopefully obvious) point: nationality and ethnicity seems to intermixed too much. If I don't like the Syrian regime, it doesn't mean I'm anti-Arab or anti-Alawite. Similarly, it should be possible to oppose actions of policy of a nation state without being accused anti-WhateverTheEthnicMajorityOfThatNationIs. I assume if someone opposes a U.S. policy, it isn't because they are anti-WASP (White Anglo Saxon Protestant)... they just genuinely dislike American policies :)