7 ms·

Why exactly is ad customization immoral?

by darawk 8y ago

salawat 8y ago
Because it sets up an incentive structure for advertising businesses to engage in sweeping and intrusive data collection and user surveillance. The technology that results is nigh indispensable from the foundations of a panopticon. Algorithms can end up exacerbating echo chambers, and reinforcing negative biases many people aren't comfortable with. And it's just bloody creepy when you sit down and think about it. That's just what I could think of off the top of my head.
- goldcd 8y ago
  But it's no less creepy that Fox News/CNN/your news provider of choice, noting you're a statistical viewer and flogging adverts you're more likely to like, and employing pundits you're more likely to turn off. (and before this your daily newspaper and columnists) "We've 'been the product' from the moment we weren't the sole funder of what we received" Even when we were - "I've become a patron a fine artist, who's got excellent reviews for some Mona-whatsit thing" - he didn't go on to paint your wife ugly. Or even more banal examples - emergency plumber will charge you a callout, same plumber in non-emergency situation will pop around that evening to give you a free quote. Same plumber, same effort - just a different transaction.
  - pnw_hazor 8y ago
    Many TV ads are also immoral. Taking advantage of emotions to trick people into buying things they don't want or need is immoral.
    - darawk 8y ago
      Is that what's actually happening though? Is there any persuasive evidence that people are, en masse, being 'tricked' into buying things they "don't want"? It seems to me that a much more persuasive case can be made that on the margin, some people flip between this product or that for meaningless reasons, but for the most part, advertising informs people of the existence of products that might improve their lives.
345gxsagdf 8y ago
Ah, an ad person. I'm sure you can see this from the inside, the advertising industry has built a large surveillance apparatus in order to sell us thing we don't need. The whole selling things we don't need is already immoral -- but that's a general criticism against advertising and marketing; In this case we have something already dubious turned into a panopticon nightmare. As we grow closer to our technology, this technology is constantly spying on us to order to optimize selling us things we don't need. You can't build trust in technology when that same technology is grassing you out to every huckster who wants to pour junk into your eyeballs.
- darawk 8y ago
  > Ah, an ad person. I don't work in advertising. > the advertising industry has built a large surveillance apparatus in order to sell us thing we don't need. The whole selling things we don't need is already immoral -- but that's a general criticism against advertising and marketing; In this case we have something already dubious turned into a panopticon nightmare. As we grow closer to our technology, this technology is constantly spying on us to order to optimize selling us things we don't need. That's all a bunch of cute stuff to say, but where's the nightmare? Thinks seem pretty good to me. Do you want to go back 50 years? 100? Which point in history was not a nightmare, to which you'd like to return?
pmoriarty 8y ago
I'd argue that unsolicited advertising in general is immoral, and ad customization (or targeted ads) is even more immoral because it's more effective. The reason I'd argue that unsolicited advertising is immoral is because it's a means of enticing or perhaps even coercing people to buy things that they would not otherwise buy. It's an attempt to control customers to enrich the sellers and marketers. In certain cases, where spending or consuming is actually harmful to the consumer, advertising is even worse. For example, let's say I have an eating disorder and can't resist buying a certain brand and flavor of ice cream. If ads are not targeted and I'm shown ads of, say, motorcycles, I can resist those and not buy them, but if I'm shown ads of my favorite ice cream I'll be tempted to buy it, overindulge, and harm my health. Gambling ads seen by gambling addicts, alcohol ads seen by alcoholics, and so on can similarly be harmful in financial, psychological, and social ways. Solicited ads are more of a gray area, because at least the consumer would be looking to buy whatever it is that's being advertised, and they want to see ads. In that case, the best outcome is that the ads help the consumer make a more informed decision. But the reality of advertising is that ads are often misleading or outright lying, making emotional appeals, or trying to psychologically manipulate consumers in to buying the product or making positive associations with the brand. So even the case of solicited advertising is very problematic.
- darawk 8y ago
  > I'd argue that unsolicited advertising in general is immoral What does 'unsolicited' mean? Would you argue that human beings are ethically incapable of consenting to being advertised to? If not, what level of consent is required? Nobody forces you to use Google, Facebook, or watch television. > In certain cases, where spending or consuming is actually harmful to the consumer, advertising is even worse. For example, let's say I have an eating disorder and can't resist buying a certain brand and flavor of ice cream. If ads are not targeted and I'm shown ads of, say, motorcycles, I can resist those and not buy them, but if I'm shown ads of my favorite ice cream I'll be tempted to buy it, overindulge, and harm my health. Gambling ads seen by gambling addicts, alcohol ads seen by alcoholics, and so on can similarly be harmful in financial, psychological, and social ways. Sure, some kinds of advertising may be immoral. But I don't see much of an argument here for advertising in general being immoral. Often advertising is quite useful, in that it connects me with products I didn't know about that I might want. Is that kind of advertising immoral? Is it immoral when Dollar Shave Club advertises on podcasts to tell you how much you can save on razors by buying from them instead of the big companies? If so, who's being harmed?
cuspycode 8y ago
It's immoral if you steal your prospective (non-customer) client data without their consent. Actually it's immoral even when the client actually is a customer, if you steal their data without their consent.
- darawk 8y ago
  That is wholly distinct from ad customization. Collecting customer data is sometimes used for ad customization, but there are varying degrees of ethicality in collection.

Why exactly is ad customization immoral?

by darawk 8y ago

Why exactly is ad customization immoral?

Because it sets up an incentive structure for advertising businesses to engage in sweeping and intrusive data collection and user surveillance. The technology that results is nigh indispensable from the foundations of a panopticon. Algorithms can end up exacerbating echo chambers, and reinforcing negative biases many people aren't comfortable with. And it's just bloody creepy when you sit down and think about it. That's just what I could think of off the top of my head.

goldcd 8y ago
But it's no less creepy that Fox News/CNN/your news provider of choice, noting you're a statistical viewer and flogging adverts you're more likely to like, and employing pundits you're more likely to turn off. (and before this your daily newspaper and columnists) "We've 'been the product' from the moment we weren't the sole funder of what we received" Even when we were - "I've become a patron a fine artist, who's got excellent reviews for some Mona-whatsit thing" - he didn't go on to paint your wife ugly. Or even more banal examples - emergency plumber will charge you a callout, same plumber in non-emergency situation will pop around that evening to give you a free quote. Same plumber, same effort - just a different transaction.
- pnw_hazor 8y ago
  Many TV ads are also immoral. Taking advantage of emotions to trick people into buying things they don't want or need is immoral.
  - darawk 8y ago
    Is that what's actually happening though? Is there any persuasive evidence that people are, en masse, being 'tricked' into buying things they "don't want"? It seems to me that a much more persuasive case can be made that on the margin, some people flip between this product or that for meaningless reasons, but for the most part, advertising informs people of the existence of products that might improve their lives.

345gxsagdf 8y ago

Ah, an ad person. I'm sure you can see this from the inside, the advertising industry has built a large surveillance apparatus in order to sell us thing we don't need. The whole selling things we don't need is already immoral -- but that's a general criticism against advertising and marketing; In this case we have something already dubious turned into a panopticon nightmare. As we grow closer to our technology, this technology is constantly spying on us to order to optimize selling us things we don't need. You can't build trust in technology when that same technology is grassing you out to every huckster who wants to pour junk into your eyeballs.

darawk 8y ago
> Ah, an ad person. I don't work in advertising. > the advertising industry has built a large surveillance apparatus in order to sell us thing we don't need. The whole selling things we don't need is already immoral -- but that's a general criticism against advertising and marketing; In this case we have something already dubious turned into a panopticon nightmare. As we grow closer to our technology, this technology is constantly spying on us to order to optimize selling us things we don't need. That's all a bunch of cute stuff to say, but where's the nightmare? Thinks seem pretty good to me. Do you want to go back 50 years? 100? Which point in history was not a nightmare, to which you'd like to return?

pmoriarty 8y ago

I'd argue that unsolicited advertising in general is immoral, and ad customization (or targeted ads) is even more immoral because it's more effective. The reason I'd argue that unsolicited advertising is immoral is because it's a means of enticing or perhaps even coercing people to buy things that they would not otherwise buy. It's an attempt to control customers to enrich the sellers and marketers. In certain cases, where spending or consuming is actually harmful to the consumer, advertising is even worse. For example, let's say I have an eating disorder and can't resist buying a certain brand and flavor of ice cream. If ads are not targeted and I'm shown ads of, say, motorcycles, I can resist those and not buy them, but if I'm shown ads of my favorite ice cream I'll be tempted to buy it, overindulge, and harm my health. Gambling ads seen by gambling addicts, alcohol ads seen by alcoholics, and so on can similarly be harmful in financial, psychological, and social ways. Solicited ads are more of a gray area, because at least the consumer would be looking to buy whatever it is that's being advertised, and they want to see ads. In that case, the best outcome is that the ads help the consumer make a more informed decision. But the reality of advertising is that ads are often misleading or outright lying, making emotional appeals, or trying to psychologically manipulate consumers in to buying the product or making positive associations with the brand. So even the case of solicited advertising is very problematic.

darawk 8y ago
> I'd argue that unsolicited advertising in general is immoral What does 'unsolicited' mean? Would you argue that human beings are ethically incapable of consenting to being advertised to? If not, what level of consent is required? Nobody forces you to use Google, Facebook, or watch television. > In certain cases, where spending or consuming is actually harmful to the consumer, advertising is even worse. For example, let's say I have an eating disorder and can't resist buying a certain brand and flavor of ice cream. If ads are not targeted and I'm shown ads of, say, motorcycles, I can resist those and not buy them, but if I'm shown ads of my favorite ice cream I'll be tempted to buy it, overindulge, and harm my health. Gambling ads seen by gambling addicts, alcohol ads seen by alcoholics, and so on can similarly be harmful in financial, psychological, and social ways. Sure, some kinds of advertising may be immoral. But I don't see much of an argument here for advertising in general being immoral. Often advertising is quite useful, in that it connects me with products I didn't know about that I might want. Is that kind of advertising immoral? Is it immoral when Dollar Shave Club advertises on podcasts to tell you how much you can save on razors by buying from them instead of the big companies? If so, who's being harmed?

cuspycode 8y ago

It's immoral if you steal your prospective (non-customer) client data without their consent. Actually it's immoral even when the client actually is a customer, if you steal their data without their consent.

darawk 8y ago
That is wholly distinct from ad customization. Collecting customer data is sometimes used for ad customization, but there are varying degrees of ethicality in collection.