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Except sugar isn't inherently bad for you. Refined sugar isn't great, because it lacks nutrients, but juice doesn't have that problem. Also, juice can improve i

Except sugar isn't inherently bad for you. Refined sugar isn't great, because it lacks nutrients, but juice doesn't have that problem. Also, juice can improve insulin sensitivity and elicits a lower insulin response than most starches and proteins. The overall effect on glucose and insulin is neutral. Sugar also contributes to fatty liver less than saturated fat, and only does so in the context of a hyper-caloric diet. https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261757046_Effect_of_Fruit_Juice_on_Glucose_Control_and_Insulin_Sensitivity_in_Adults_A_Meta-Analysis_of_12_Randomized_Controlled_Trials https://www.researchgate.net/publication/261757046_Effect_of... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29844096/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/29844096/

bad_user 8y ago
> Sugar also contributes to fatty liver less than saturated fat I’ve seen multiple studies suggesting otherwise, sugar being in general responsible for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. That assertion will also be difficult to swallow for anybody that ever attempted a Keto diet. I can talk from my own experience with Keto, when I binge ate butter on cheese (aka fat bombs). I did not lose any weight and yet my fatty liver was gone after the 3 months I was on it. Also all my liver’s ALT and AST levels are perfect. And I must insist on this point: no weight loss was involved. Also note that the study you’re linking, with 38 subjects observed for 3 weeks, is statistically insignificant and probably flawed, as small studies tend to be. When changing somebody’s macros, there’s an adaptation period involved and 3 weeks is not enough. The funny thing about all claims regarding the negative effects of saturated fats is that: (1) saturated fat was a major caloric source throughout all of human history and yes, we know what humans ate in the Paleolithic (2) human fat itself is saturated, you know, the one the body starts consuming when hungry Humans are equipped to efficiently digest saturated fats and starchy plants rich in glucose. Well actually humans only need about 600 calories from carbs, any excess is converted to fat. Fructose on the other hand is completely unnecessary, when digested it is converted to fat or glucose and it’s toxic in high doses. You can live your whole life without eating another gram of sugar. You can’t say that about saturated fat ;-) Funny enough you can make the same argument about the other public enemy, salt. You will literally die without enough sodium in your diet and yet the healthcare industry is fixated on vilifying salt, but not sugar. A huge double standard that has no basis in actual science.
- ZeroFries 8y ago
  Humans store saturated fat because it's stable and calorically dense. I'm actually not against saturated fat, I'm just not against sugar, or any other macronutrient. The food matters more than the macronutrient composition. If your argument against sugar is that it's converted to fat, I don't really follow, especially given you're a proponent of a high fat diet. Would like to see those studies om sugar and fatty liver (compared to other macronutrients). Also, why do you believe saturated fat is necessary? Okinawas eat a very low saturated fat diet (traditionally) and have great longevity.
- ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
  You didn’t lose any weight on keto because you were eating too much. You can still gain weight if you eat 4000 calories worth of spinach.
  - bad_user 8y ago
    I know. But no, it’s impossible to eat 4000 calories from spinach :-) I have a problem with binge eating and I think it is emotional.
    - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
      Not impossible, mathematically speaking, but yeah, no one is going to willingly eat that much spinach. But I bet you didn’t lose weight on the keto diet because you were eating too much cheese or something like that; perhaps not enough exercise to keep a decent weekly calorie deficit. That’s where you went wrong. I agree on binge eating yeah but so is anorexia or bulemia.
coldtea 8y ago
>Except sugar isn't inherently bad for you. Refined sugar isn't great, because it lacks nutrients, but juice doesn't have that problem. It's the nutrients to volume to "how easy to gulp a gallon" ration that matters, not merely having nutrients.
- ZeroFries 8y ago
  The nutrient:calorie ratio is more important than those other metrics you listed. Whey protein shakes are "easy to gulp" but show fairly high satiety ratings, for example. Liver has a very high nutrient:volume ratio and is considered healthy, brocalli has a low nutrient:volume ratio and is considered healthy.
  - coldtea 8y ago
    >The nutrient:calorie ratio is more important than those other metrics you listed. For health benefits. For the propensity to make you fat, the "easy to gulp tons of calories quickly" is also interesting regardless of the nutritional value of what you gulp on. Water for example has no nutrients and no calories, but even so it's better than an orange juice diet wise.

bad_user 8y ago

> Sugar also contributes to fatty liver less than saturated fat I’ve seen multiple studies suggesting otherwise, sugar being in general responsible for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. That assertion will also be difficult to swallow for anybody that ever attempted a Keto diet. I can talk from my own experience with Keto, when I binge ate butter on cheese (aka fat bombs). I did not lose any weight and yet my fatty liver was gone after the 3 months I was on it. Also all my liver’s ALT and AST levels are perfect. And I must insist on this point: no weight loss was involved. Also note that the study you’re linking, with 38 subjects observed for 3 weeks, is statistically insignificant and probably flawed, as small studies tend to be. When changing somebody’s macros, there’s an adaptation period involved and 3 weeks is not enough. The funny thing about all claims regarding the negative effects of saturated fats is that: (1) saturated fat was a major caloric source throughout all of human history and yes, we know what humans ate in the Paleolithic (2) human fat itself is saturated, you know, the one the body starts consuming when hungry Humans are equipped to efficiently digest saturated fats and starchy plants rich in glucose. Well actually humans only need about 600 calories from carbs, any excess is converted to fat. Fructose on the other hand is completely unnecessary, when digested it is converted to fat or glucose and it’s toxic in high doses. You can live your whole life without eating another gram of sugar. You can’t say that about saturated fat ;-) Funny enough you can make the same argument about the other public enemy, salt. You will literally die without enough sodium in your diet and yet the healthcare industry is fixated on vilifying salt, but not sugar. A huge double standard that has no basis in actual science.

ZeroFries 8y ago
Humans store saturated fat because it's stable and calorically dense. I'm actually not against saturated fat, I'm just not against sugar, or any other macronutrient. The food matters more than the macronutrient composition. If your argument against sugar is that it's converted to fat, I don't really follow, especially given you're a proponent of a high fat diet. Would like to see those studies om sugar and fatty liver (compared to other macronutrients). Also, why do you believe saturated fat is necessary? Okinawas eat a very low saturated fat diet (traditionally) and have great longevity.
ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
You didn’t lose any weight on keto because you were eating too much. You can still gain weight if you eat 4000 calories worth of spinach.
- bad_user 8y ago
  I know. But no, it’s impossible to eat 4000 calories from spinach :-) I have a problem with binge eating and I think it is emotional.
  - ulisesrmzroche 8y ago
    Not impossible, mathematically speaking, but yeah, no one is going to willingly eat that much spinach. But I bet you didn’t lose weight on the keto diet because you were eating too much cheese or something like that; perhaps not enough exercise to keep a decent weekly calorie deficit. That’s where you went wrong. I agree on binge eating yeah but so is anorexia or bulemia.

coldtea 8y ago

>Except sugar isn't inherently bad for you. Refined sugar isn't great, because it lacks nutrients, but juice doesn't have that problem. It's the nutrients to volume to "how easy to gulp a gallon" ration that matters, not merely having nutrients.

ZeroFries 8y ago
The nutrient:calorie ratio is more important than those other metrics you listed. Whey protein shakes are "easy to gulp" but show fairly high satiety ratings, for example. Liver has a very high nutrient:volume ratio and is considered healthy, brocalli has a low nutrient:volume ratio and is considered healthy.
- coldtea 8y ago
  >The nutrient:calorie ratio is more important than those other metrics you listed. For health benefits. For the propensity to make you fat, the "easy to gulp tons of calories quickly" is also interesting regardless of the nutritional value of what you gulp on. Water for example has no nutrients and no calories, but even so it's better than an orange juice diet wise.