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> As the actual person who receives these complaints... this isn't true. Once it's explained, though, the users still stick around and get angry because they ma

> As the actual person who receives these complaints... this isn't true. Once it's explained, though, the users still stick around and get angry because they made dumb, uninformed choices as a consumer and think it's our fault. In terms of sheer bang for your buck, Nvidia's cards have been on top for a while now (there's a good reason cryptocurrency miners have been using them), on Linux their proprietary drivers are the most stable in games - unless your only goal is to run Wayland, it's not exactly a "dumb, uninformed choice". This seems like a clear problem with Wayland developers mentality if they expect consumers to make purchasing decisions based on their platform alone.

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
>In terms of sheer bang for your buck, Nvidia's cards have been on top for a while now But they have not been on top for a long enough period that cards bought when they were are generally supported by nouveau, and cards bought after should be AMD. On top of this, the reality is that most people don't need top of the line GPUs. Last year's GPUs will run next year's games at max specs. >Linux their proprietary drivers are the most stable in games were
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  > Last year's GPUs will run next year's games at max specs. If you want to run at 1080p@60hz perhaps, but many people now are going to 1440p, 2160p, 144hz or some combination there of which can easily strain even the latest GPUs.
  - Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
    I said max specs. I didn't stutter.
    - sitzkrieg 8y ago
      Nice argument
  - shmerl 8y ago
    You can get high end AMD cards for these, so it's not an issue if you want to use open drivers. Last year was a bit tight due to crytpocurrency mining rush (AMD GPUs were hard to buy, prices were crazy inflated and so on). This year should be better for gaming with open drivers, especially after Navi will come out.
    - shittyadmin 8y ago
      Last I heard AMD drivers, both proprietary and open have severe stability issues on Linux. Is that no longer the case?
      - shmerl 8y ago
        Not anymore for open drivers. Mesa developers had a lot of push to fix gaming related bugs. If you know some that are still broken, please open a bug on Mesa bug tracker and also list it here: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/Games_broken_on_Mesa https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/Games_broken_on_Mesa This list is monitored by Mesa developers. These days AMD explicitly recommend using open drivers for gaming.
      - ePierre 8y ago
        I've bought an AMD Radeon RX580 on my desktop for gaming, and it's been working great so far with the default open source drivers that come with Ubuntu (18.04 onwards). Didn't have to do anything.
Iolaum 8y ago
It is an uninformed choice if you want to run wayland. That doesn't mean there aren't other factors at play. For example back when I was shopping for a laptop 2yrs ago, AMD GPU's weren't even available on most vendors. Even now linux vendors such as system76 and entroware don't ship amd cards on their laptops. CUDA dominating the Deep Learning space doesn't help either. That said my next hardware upgrade will definitely have an open source supported GPU or I m just not buying.
- anon1385 8y ago
  >It is an uninformed choice if you want to run wayland Creating a product that only works for people who already a) know about it and b) buy their hardware specifically to support it doesn't seem like a good strategy to achieve widespread adoption, which requires converting people who don't currently use or know about wayland.
  - vetinari 8y ago
    Nvidia goes out of their way not to play nice with Linux. It is no wonder, that Linux ecosystem will not accommodate their special requirements. When you are purchasing Nvidia, you are giving money to Nvidia. If you have problem with some software not working with a product your purchased, contact the people you gave money to for support.
vetinari 8y ago
Cryptocurrency miners preferred AMD cards, actually. And not the latest ones, but Polaris (4x0, 5x0), which provided the best efficiency wrt power, performance and price. It's gamers, that prefer Nvidia. Nvidia has better optimized driver stack, although they also sometimes play fast and loose.
- shittyadmin 8y ago
  Originally, yes, in recent years however that changed. Look at the cards used for ZCash, Monero, etc.
  - shmerl 8y ago
    Miners are increasingly moving to specialized ASICs anyway. Which is good for gamers who needs GPUs :)
- azinman2 8y ago
  Any anyone doing deep learning.
shmerl 8y ago
> on Linux their proprietary drivers are the most stable in games Not anymore, as long as you are using latest Mesa. Also, Nvidia usage on Linux is gradually dropping. See: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&view=trends https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&vi... So I agree with position that compositor developers should not waste their time on supporting the blob. If Nvidia are so eager, let them contribute support, like they proposed for KWin.
- mroche 8y ago
  From the site: > This is currently in BETA. There are 8338 registered users on GamingOnLinux. These statistics are gathered using their manually entered data on their profiles. Please update your profile here to make this as accurate as possible. > As with any survey, this won't be 100% accurate and should be taken with a pinch of salt. 8K users on a site about gaming. Doesn’t include RHEL/CentOS in its distribution chart. Way too myopic of a sample to even declare NVIDIA usage on Linux is dropping. For all we know it could be that new users are signing up that don’t have NVIDIA hardware, it doesn’t show a shift away from NVIDIA. I know that your comment is about games, but over in the professional CG/VFX and AI/ML spaces, AMD is rarely touched. For both workstations and server racks.
  - shmerl 8y ago
    I was talking about gaming. RHEL/CentOS are server distros, not gaming oriented by any means. Fedora is more like it in such cases, if you prefer that family of distros. > it doesn’t show a shift away from NVIDIA It does, as confirmed by many users who choose AMD for their next upgrades. Their choice of Nvidia was due to better performing drivers in the past, which is a non existent difference these days. So they choose to drop Nvidia and get AMD because of much better Linux integration (from kernel to the whole graphics stack and DEs), which is a consequence of AMD drivers being open. > but over in the professional CG/VFX and AI/ML spaces, AMD is rarely touched Not from what I've heard. AMD is better for GPGPU due to real asynchronous compute which Nvidia lacks. If anything, AMD hardware is more compute oriented, and Nvidia one is more gaming oriented. AMD plan to address it with their next architecture (so called "super-SIMD"). But compute hardware support is already good there. You might refer to CUDA lock-in, and some higher end libraries for AI being CUDA only. That's surely a problem, but not with hardware itself. AMD are working on addressing that as well (ROCm project).
mncharity 8y ago
> In terms of sheer bang for your buck, Nvidia's cards have been on top for a while now https://www.phoronix.com/ https://www.phoronix.com/ has a recent benchmarking of absolute card performance[1], and sometimes does performance-per-dollar, as here[2] last year with OpenCL (reporting AMD's FLOPS as cheaper... when ROCm satisfices). I've found the site helpful when tracking bleeding-edge linux support for high-end graphics cards. [1] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=radeon-vii-linux https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=radeon-v... [2] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-rtx2080ti-compute&num=8 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-r...

Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago

>In terms of sheer bang for your buck, Nvidia's cards have been on top for a while now But they have not been on top for a long enough period that cards bought when they were are generally supported by nouveau, and cards bought after should be AMD. On top of this, the reality is that most people don't need top of the line GPUs. Last year's GPUs will run next year's games at max specs. >Linux their proprietary drivers are the most stable in games were

shittyadmin 8y ago
> Last year's GPUs will run next year's games at max specs. If you want to run at 1080p@60hz perhaps, but many people now are going to 1440p, 2160p, 144hz or some combination there of which can easily strain even the latest GPUs.
- Sir_Cmpwn 8y ago
  I said max specs. I didn't stutter.
  - sitzkrieg 8y ago
    Nice argument
- shmerl 8y ago
  You can get high end AMD cards for these, so it's not an issue if you want to use open drivers. Last year was a bit tight due to crytpocurrency mining rush (AMD GPUs were hard to buy, prices were crazy inflated and so on). This year should be better for gaming with open drivers, especially after Navi will come out.
  - shittyadmin 8y ago
    Last I heard AMD drivers, both proprietary and open have severe stability issues on Linux. Is that no longer the case?
    - shmerl 8y ago
      Not anymore for open drivers. Mesa developers had a lot of push to fix gaming related bugs. If you know some that are still broken, please open a bug on Mesa bug tracker and also list it here: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/Games_broken_on_Mesa https://www.gamingonlinux.com/wiki/Games_broken_on_Mesa This list is monitored by Mesa developers. These days AMD explicitly recommend using open drivers for gaming.
    - ePierre 8y ago
      I've bought an AMD Radeon RX580 on my desktop for gaming, and it's been working great so far with the default open source drivers that come with Ubuntu (18.04 onwards). Didn't have to do anything.

Iolaum 8y ago

It is an uninformed choice if you want to run wayland. That doesn't mean there aren't other factors at play. For example back when I was shopping for a laptop 2yrs ago, AMD GPU's weren't even available on most vendors. Even now linux vendors such as system76 and entroware don't ship amd cards on their laptops. CUDA dominating the Deep Learning space doesn't help either. That said my next hardware upgrade will definitely have an open source supported GPU or I m just not buying.

anon1385 8y ago
>It is an uninformed choice if you want to run wayland Creating a product that only works for people who already a) know about it and b) buy their hardware specifically to support it doesn't seem like a good strategy to achieve widespread adoption, which requires converting people who don't currently use or know about wayland.
- vetinari 8y ago
  Nvidia goes out of their way not to play nice with Linux. It is no wonder, that Linux ecosystem will not accommodate their special requirements. When you are purchasing Nvidia, you are giving money to Nvidia. If you have problem with some software not working with a product your purchased, contact the people you gave money to for support.

vetinari 8y ago

Cryptocurrency miners preferred AMD cards, actually. And not the latest ones, but Polaris (4x0, 5x0), which provided the best efficiency wrt power, performance and price. It's gamers, that prefer Nvidia. Nvidia has better optimized driver stack, although they also sometimes play fast and loose.

shittyadmin 8y ago
Originally, yes, in recent years however that changed. Look at the cards used for ZCash, Monero, etc.
- shmerl 8y ago
  Miners are increasingly moving to specialized ASICs anyway. Which is good for gamers who needs GPUs :)
azinman2 8y ago
Any anyone doing deep learning.

shmerl 8y ago

> on Linux their proprietary drivers are the most stable in games Not anymore, as long as you are using latest Mesa. Also, Nvidia usage on Linux is gradually dropping. See: https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&view=trends https://www.gamingonlinux.com/index.php?module=statistics&vi... So I agree with position that compositor developers should not waste their time on supporting the blob. If Nvidia are so eager, let them contribute support, like they proposed for KWin.

mroche 8y ago
From the site: > This is currently in BETA. There are 8338 registered users on GamingOnLinux. These statistics are gathered using their manually entered data on their profiles. Please update your profile here to make this as accurate as possible. > As with any survey, this won't be 100% accurate and should be taken with a pinch of salt. 8K users on a site about gaming. Doesn’t include RHEL/CentOS in its distribution chart. Way too myopic of a sample to even declare NVIDIA usage on Linux is dropping. For all we know it could be that new users are signing up that don’t have NVIDIA hardware, it doesn’t show a shift away from NVIDIA. I know that your comment is about games, but over in the professional CG/VFX and AI/ML spaces, AMD is rarely touched. For both workstations and server racks.
- shmerl 8y ago
  I was talking about gaming. RHEL/CentOS are server distros, not gaming oriented by any means. Fedora is more like it in such cases, if you prefer that family of distros. > it doesn’t show a shift away from NVIDIA It does, as confirmed by many users who choose AMD for their next upgrades. Their choice of Nvidia was due to better performing drivers in the past, which is a non existent difference these days. So they choose to drop Nvidia and get AMD because of much better Linux integration (from kernel to the whole graphics stack and DEs), which is a consequence of AMD drivers being open. > but over in the professional CG/VFX and AI/ML spaces, AMD is rarely touched Not from what I've heard. AMD is better for GPGPU due to real asynchronous compute which Nvidia lacks. If anything, AMD hardware is more compute oriented, and Nvidia one is more gaming oriented. AMD plan to address it with their next architecture (so called "super-SIMD"). But compute hardware support is already good there. You might refer to CUDA lock-in, and some higher end libraries for AI being CUDA only. That's surely a problem, but not with hardware itself. AMD are working on addressing that as well (ROCm project).

mncharity 8y ago

> In terms of sheer bang for your buck, Nvidia's cards have been on top for a while now https://www.phoronix.com/ https://www.phoronix.com/ has a recent benchmarking of absolute card performance[1], and sometimes does performance-per-dollar, as here[2] last year with OpenCL (reporting AMD's FLOPS as cheaper... when ROCm satisfices). I've found the site helpful when tracking bleeding-edge linux support for high-end graphics cards. [1] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=radeon-vii-linux https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=radeon-v... [2] https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-rtx2080ti-compute&num=8 https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=nvidia-r...