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I support YouTube denouncing flat earthers because the science is clear to me: they're wrong. I think this will get slippery if they make similar tweaks for pol

by xfitm3 8y ago

I support YouTube denouncing flat earthers because the science is clear to me: they're wrong. I think this will get slippery if they make similar tweaks for politics or social issues. This raises the question is it really YouTube's job to stop crazy? Where is the responsibility of the viewer?

Spooky23 8y ago
Why is it YouTube’s job to promote crazy? Why does the platform facilitate the branding of ignorance? Blaming the viewer is ridiculous — repetition of propaganda is dangerous and eventually changes people’s minds. It’s unfortunate that an amazing educational and entertainment resource is ruined by dumb policy — I don’t feel it’s appropriate for my son to use YouTube independently, as it always leads you to a rabbit hole of crazy through the recommendation engine. Always, because ignorance is engaging.
jeromegv 8y ago
The problem is not about Youtube stopping or not stopping the crazy. The problem is that: "flat earth videos were promoted ~10x more than round earth ones". They actually promoted the crazy quite a lot more than they promoted the real one. Keep the crazy videos on but jeez, stop promoting them above everything else.
- whatshisface 8y ago
  I think that if people want to watch flat earth videos, then the right thing to do is connect them to flat earth videos. I for one think flat earth videos are hilarious.
  - raverbashing 8y ago
    Yeah, this is part of the problem. Finding them "funny" and feeding the promotion machine. This is how we get teenagers having to vaccinate themselves because their parents were too stupid to fall for the antivax BS Because as inconsequential for everyday life (in general) if man stepped on the moon or if the Earth is a cylinder, it teaches people that "it's ok to ignore those nerds that say otherwise, whatever you believe that's ok" "Let's give stupidity a chance"? Sorry, no
  - shaki-dora 8y ago
    Everyone in this threat is using „flat earth“ as a stand-in for the actually dangerous stuff eating at the foundations of democracy. Unfortunately, saying that some of those 4chan conspiracies are wrong, stupid, and potentially dangerous is deemed to be political and therefore not appreciated on HN.
- tylersmith 8y ago
  There are probably a lot more videos about the earth being flat than about it being round. People who believe the earth is round probably don't make a lot of videos about it.
pizza 8y ago
Basically the YouTube AI is severely overfitting its recommendations to a certain minority of ultra-users that then relay that niche-cultural-fit on to the content creators. If anything, YouTube's algorithm should be less tweaked - less accurate in its expectation of how you will enjoy a video, or other similar metrics (expected screen time predictions, expected ad revenue predictions, etc) - rather than more tweaked. Will this happen? Well, will YouTube prefer to make less money, just because you want your son or your coworker to be less 'derailed'?
- baybal2 8y ago
  > severely overfitting its recommendations to a certain minority of ultra-users that then relay that niche-cultural-fit on to the content creators Well, not a minority by far. If 10% of US population believes in "conspiracy theory A, B, or C," that already makes it into one of the biggest coherent, idea based social groups, and it's only natural that their statistics got locked on the signal from such a big group. If picking up of major "psychocultural" groups is what it was designed for, it does its job excellently; and for the very same reason, it makes spread of any materiel catering to such groups very easy. That also explains why its targeting seemingly overlaps with demographic being targeted by foreign propaganda - propaganda designed for a certain effect is always targeted at big well definable demographic groups. An efficient propaganda is a message that predictably causes the same desired effect on as many people as possible.
untog 8y ago
I actually don't think that's the story here. The story is that irrespective of content, the YT algorithm optimises for maximum viewing time, and it takes the behaviour of other people into account when making recommendations to you, to an extent that seems to cause a snowball effect once the recommendations start. What if YouTube... didn't do that? It's already enormously successful, and could just show you other shows by the same user in the post-roll. Or videos in the same category. YT pushed changes to optimise view numbers at absolutely any cost, because they could. But that doesn't mean they have to.
KirinDave 8y ago
It's not about "youtube stopping crazy." It's more about "Youtube not exponentially promoting crazy, or monetizing viral content."

by xfitm3 8y ago

Spooky23 8y ago

Why is it YouTube’s job to promote crazy? Why does the platform facilitate the branding of ignorance? Blaming the viewer is ridiculous — repetition of propaganda is dangerous and eventually changes people’s minds. It’s unfortunate that an amazing educational and entertainment resource is ruined by dumb policy — I don’t feel it’s appropriate for my son to use YouTube independently, as it always leads you to a rabbit hole of crazy through the recommendation engine. Always, because ignorance is engaging.

jeromegv 8y ago

The problem is not about Youtube stopping or not stopping the crazy. The problem is that: "flat earth videos were promoted ~10x more than round earth ones". They actually promoted the crazy quite a lot more than they promoted the real one. Keep the crazy videos on but jeez, stop promoting them above everything else.

whatshisface 8y ago
I think that if people want to watch flat earth videos, then the right thing to do is connect them to flat earth videos. I for one think flat earth videos are hilarious.
- raverbashing 8y ago
  Yeah, this is part of the problem. Finding them "funny" and feeding the promotion machine. This is how we get teenagers having to vaccinate themselves because their parents were too stupid to fall for the antivax BS Because as inconsequential for everyday life (in general) if man stepped on the moon or if the Earth is a cylinder, it teaches people that "it's ok to ignore those nerds that say otherwise, whatever you believe that's ok" "Let's give stupidity a chance"? Sorry, no
- shaki-dora 8y ago
  Everyone in this threat is using „flat earth“ as a stand-in for the actually dangerous stuff eating at the foundations of democracy. Unfortunately, saying that some of those 4chan conspiracies are wrong, stupid, and potentially dangerous is deemed to be political and therefore not appreciated on HN.
tylersmith 8y ago
There are probably a lot more videos about the earth being flat than about it being round. People who believe the earth is round probably don't make a lot of videos about it.

pizza 8y ago

Basically the YouTube AI is severely overfitting its recommendations to a certain minority of ultra-users that then relay that niche-cultural-fit on to the content creators. If anything, YouTube's algorithm should be less tweaked - less accurate in its expectation of how you will enjoy a video, or other similar metrics (expected screen time predictions, expected ad revenue predictions, etc) - rather than more tweaked. Will this happen? Well, will YouTube prefer to make less money, just because you want your son or your coworker to be less 'derailed'?

baybal2 8y ago
> severely overfitting its recommendations to a certain minority of ultra-users that then relay that niche-cultural-fit on to the content creators Well, not a minority by far. If 10% of US population believes in "conspiracy theory A, B, or C," that already makes it into one of the biggest coherent, idea based social groups, and it's only natural that their statistics got locked on the signal from such a big group. If picking up of major "psychocultural" groups is what it was designed for, it does its job excellently; and for the very same reason, it makes spread of any materiel catering to such groups very easy. That also explains why its targeting seemingly overlaps with demographic being targeted by foreign propaganda - propaganda designed for a certain effect is always targeted at big well definable demographic groups. An efficient propaganda is a message that predictably causes the same desired effect on as many people as possible.

untog 8y ago

I actually don't think that's the story here. The story is that irrespective of content, the YT algorithm optimises for maximum viewing time, and it takes the behaviour of other people into account when making recommendations to you, to an extent that seems to cause a snowball effect once the recommendations start. What if YouTube... didn't do that? It's already enormously successful, and could just show you other shows by the same user in the post-roll. Or videos in the same category. YT pushed changes to optimise view numbers at absolutely any cost, because they could. But that doesn't mean they have to.

KirinDave 8y ago

It's not about "youtube stopping crazy." It's more about "Youtube not exponentially promoting crazy, or monetizing viral content."