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>Wine is unimplementable in Wayland. By design. This is false. Wine could be implemented, it would just be less easy than on X11 because it uses relative coord

>Wine is unimplementable in Wayland. By design. This is false. Wine could be implemented, it would just be less easy than on X11 because it uses relative coordinates for everything. But it's totally possible to convert absolute coords to relative coords and use e.g. wl_subsurface. >Programs cannot set their own hotkeys in Wayland. You must use the desktop enviromnent's hotkey tool to set global hotkeys. Yes. This is by design, because it's very easy to turn a global hotkey mechanism into a keylogger mechanism. Also it's not clear how hotkey conflicts should be handled. Note that there are protocol proposals for global hotkeys. >Screenshotting and screen casting tools are unimplementable in Wayland, by design. They already work. See xdg-desktop-portal. > Some Wayland implementations provide additional features, like screenshotting / hotkey registration, anyway, as API extensions. These extensions are not standardized and require individual support for each Wayland implementation in each program, thus causing further fragmentation. That's how it works. Wayland doesn't have the magical power to make everybody implement a common interface. For an interface to be implemented, compositor writers and desktop developers have to agree on a design. Drew DeVault said on IRC something that sums up the situation quite well: "Asking wayland for hotkey management is like asking the HTTP standards group for a new HTML element".

CyberShadow 8y ago
> This is false. Wine could be implemented, [...] Is the information in this bug outdated? https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284 https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284 > Yes. This is by design, because it's very easy to turn a global hotkey mechanism into a keylogger mechanism. Also it's not clear how hotkey conflicts should be handled. It doesn't change that this impacts usability, and a lot of software will need significant updates to accommodate these limitations. > They already work. See xdg-desktop-portal. As I understand, xdg-desktop-portal is one competing mechanism among several. > That's how it works. Wayland doesn't have the magical power to make everybody implement a common interface. I don't understand... by "a common interface", how would that differ in concept from the X11 protocol?
- detaro 8y ago
  A new common interface can be better designed and take security levels, permissions, ... into account, instead of giving everything access to all windows?
- emersion 8y ago
  > Is the information in this bug outdated? This comment suggests the same thing as me: https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284#c8 https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284#c8 > It doesn't change that this impacts usability, and a lot of software will need significant updates to accommodate these limitations. Yes, software needs to be updated to work with Wayland. Though, I'm not personally using a lot of software having global hotkeys, and I can configure global hotkeys in my compositor when needed. > As I understand, xdg-desktop-portal is one competing mechanism among several. It's the most widely supported mechanism. Works on GNOME and KDE, and support for Sway (and more generally wlroots) is WIP. > I don't understand... by "a common interface", how would that differ in concept from the X11 protocol? In the X11 world, all WMs didn't have to agree on a screen capture protocol. Note that there are discussions in progress to improve communication between Wayland compositor writers.
mbrumlow 8y ago
I think sway just got support for relative coordinates.
- emersion 8y ago
  Sway got support for relative-pointer, but it's unrelated to positioning surfaces.
  - mbrumlow 8y ago
    I see, my mistake.
dooglius 8y ago
> Asking wayland for hotkey management is like asking the HTTP standards group for a new HTML element It sounds like there is no equivalent of HTML though, and X used to provide an HTML-level API for which there is now no standard. It's a pretty fair criticism of Wayland if it requires developers to re-invent a common interface to get functionality that was previously available through X.

CyberShadow 8y ago

> This is false. Wine could be implemented, [...] Is the information in this bug outdated? https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284 https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284 > Yes. This is by design, because it's very easy to turn a global hotkey mechanism into a keylogger mechanism. Also it's not clear how hotkey conflicts should be handled. It doesn't change that this impacts usability, and a lot of software will need significant updates to accommodate these limitations. > They already work. See xdg-desktop-portal. As I understand, xdg-desktop-portal is one competing mechanism among several. > That's how it works. Wayland doesn't have the magical power to make everybody implement a common interface. I don't understand... by "a common interface", how would that differ in concept from the X11 protocol?

detaro 8y ago
A new common interface can be better designed and take security levels, permissions, ... into account, instead of giving everything access to all windows?
emersion 8y ago
> Is the information in this bug outdated? This comment suggests the same thing as me: https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284#c8 https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=42284#c8 > It doesn't change that this impacts usability, and a lot of software will need significant updates to accommodate these limitations. Yes, software needs to be updated to work with Wayland. Though, I'm not personally using a lot of software having global hotkeys, and I can configure global hotkeys in my compositor when needed. > As I understand, xdg-desktop-portal is one competing mechanism among several. It's the most widely supported mechanism. Works on GNOME and KDE, and support for Sway (and more generally wlroots) is WIP. > I don't understand... by "a common interface", how would that differ in concept from the X11 protocol? In the X11 world, all WMs didn't have to agree on a screen capture protocol. Note that there are discussions in progress to improve communication between Wayland compositor writers.

mbrumlow 8y ago

I think sway just got support for relative coordinates.

emersion 8y ago
Sway got support for relative-pointer, but it's unrelated to positioning surfaces.
- mbrumlow 8y ago
  I see, my mistake.

dooglius 8y ago

> Asking wayland for hotkey management is like asking the HTTP standards group for a new HTML element It sounds like there is no equivalent of HTML though, and X used to provide an HTML-level API for which there is now no standard. It's a pretty fair criticism of Wayland if it requires developers to re-invent a common interface to get functionality that was previously available through X.