6 ms·

Scientists Discover Evidence of Long “Ocean Memory”

58 points by hownottowrite 8y ago

mc32 8y ago
Is the implication that today’s warming surfaces of the seas will not be expressed in the deaths of the seas for centuries to come?
- Anon84 8y ago
  Not exactly. My interpretation is that global warming will have long lasting consequences. Even if we do manage to mitigate it, a lot of damage is already done.
  - dfxm12 8y ago
    Even if we do manage to mitigate it, a lot of damage is already done It is still important to note that further damage can be done!
    - Ixiaus 8y ago
      s/can be/is being/
- makerofspoons 8y ago
  Like many things climate related there is a significant lag-time, in human terms. As stated in the article the implication is that if humanity survives the climate crisis it could take centuries to undo the damage to the oceans. However it is much more likely acidification will cause a trophic collapse and kill off the sea life before that were to occur- we have already lost around half of the base of our aquatic food chain, phytoplankton, since 1950: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/ocean-phytoplankton-zooplankton-food-web-1.4927884 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/ocean-p... There are widespread problems with sea birds dying of vitamin B1 deficiency, for which phytoplankton are a source, indicating this collapse is already in motion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6196476/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6196476/
  - radford-neal 8y ago
    You need to read things more critically. Ask yourself, "can it really be true that total ocean phytoplankton have declined by 50%"? If it were true, what else would be true? It's the base of the food chain. One would see huge effects everywhere in the oceans. It's inconceivable that this would be reported just in some minor CBC news report. It's got to be that (at most) there's just a local decline in some spot off Newfoundland. You've also grossly mis-read the article on vitamin B1 deficiency. And, you ask "if humanity survives the climate crisis"? There is no prospect that the "climate crisis" will lead to human extinction. (Humans might manage to go extinct for some other reason, like an out-of-control bioweapon, but not for a reason closely linked to climate change.) You have been paying too much attention to quasi-religious apocalyptic propaganda.
    - makerofspoons 8y ago
      I was looking for a citation that was not paywalled- here is a Nature study that corroborates my claim that we have lost around half of the phytoplankton since 1950: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature09268 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature09268 If this is true I would expect the populations of sea birds and sea life to plunge, which they have. The WWF published a report in 2015 that showed that marine vertebrates have declined by 49% from 1970 to 2012: https://www.worldwildlife.org/publications/living-blue-planet-report-2015 https://www.worldwildlife.org/publications/living-blue-plane... I'm not sure how I misread the vitamin B1 article, phytoplankton is cited as a potential cause of the problem several times in the section 'A Sea of Possibilities'. There is also plenty of cause for concern about human extinction- between the insect die off and the marine die off it is unclear how we will be able to produce food going forward.
      - ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
        The thing I have trouble understanding is this.... How can the same people be worried about human extinction as a result of environmental collapse, also think we might be able to develop a sustainable colony on Mars. I agree that climate change is a huge problem and could result in horrific loss of life and a world wide traumatic event like we have never seen before. But there is no way that global warming will make this planet LESS hospitable than Mars could be possibly be in the next 200 years.
SubiculumCode 8y ago
-a testament to open data sciences. I think the same will be true with neuroscience data of today...more informed scientists of the future will download our data off the open repositories and make novel predictions based off their better understanding.
mistrial9 8y ago
offtopic -- an article got a lot of attention recently about renewed means of sea-level rise via heat expansion.. clicking on a few links got a pretty exemplary set of reproducible data tables and code, and several research publications showing years of inquiry.. as a Westerner, an interesting note is that it all came from a China PRC lab, quite a bit in English, and out-performing many "Nature Climate" sort of things, from an "open" standpoint.. quite the reversal, on a crucial topic. Lijing Cheng et al International Center for Climate and Environment Sciences, Institute of Atmospheric Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing 100029, China

58 points by hownottowrite 8y ago

mc32 8y ago

Is the implication that today’s warming surfaces of the seas will not be expressed in the deaths of the seas for centuries to come?

Anon84 8y ago
Not exactly. My interpretation is that global warming will have long lasting consequences. Even if we do manage to mitigate it, a lot of damage is already done.
- dfxm12 8y ago
  Even if we do manage to mitigate it, a lot of damage is already done It is still important to note that further damage can be done!
  - Ixiaus 8y ago
    s/can be/is being/
makerofspoons 8y ago
Like many things climate related there is a significant lag-time, in human terms. As stated in the article the implication is that if humanity survives the climate crisis it could take centuries to undo the damage to the oceans. However it is much more likely acidification will cause a trophic collapse and kill off the sea life before that were to occur- we have already lost around half of the base of our aquatic food chain, phytoplankton, since 1950: https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/ocean-phytoplankton-zooplankton-food-web-1.4927884 https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/newfoundland-labrador/ocean-p... There are widespread problems with sea birds dying of vitamin B1 deficiency, for which phytoplankton are a source, indicating this collapse is already in motion: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6196476/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6196476/
- radford-neal 8y ago
  You need to read things more critically. Ask yourself, "can it really be true that total ocean phytoplankton have declined by 50%"? If it were true, what else would be true? It's the base of the food chain. One would see huge effects everywhere in the oceans. It's inconceivable that this would be reported just in some minor CBC news report. It's got to be that (at most) there's just a local decline in some spot off Newfoundland. You've also grossly mis-read the article on vitamin B1 deficiency. And, you ask "if humanity survives the climate crisis"? There is no prospect that the "climate crisis" will lead to human extinction. (Humans might manage to go extinct for some other reason, like an out-of-control bioweapon, but not for a reason closely linked to climate change.) You have been paying too much attention to quasi-religious apocalyptic propaganda.
  - makerofspoons 8y ago
    I was looking for a citation that was not paywalled- here is a Nature study that corroborates my claim that we have lost around half of the phytoplankton since 1950: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature09268 https://www.nature.com/articles/nature09268 If this is true I would expect the populations of sea birds and sea life to plunge, which they have. The WWF published a report in 2015 that showed that marine vertebrates have declined by 49% from 1970 to 2012: https://www.worldwildlife.org/publications/living-blue-planet-report-2015 https://www.worldwildlife.org/publications/living-blue-plane... I'm not sure how I misread the vitamin B1 article, phytoplankton is cited as a potential cause of the problem several times in the section 'A Sea of Possibilities'. There is also plenty of cause for concern about human extinction- between the insect die off and the marine die off it is unclear how we will be able to produce food going forward.
    - ghostbrainalpha 8y ago
      The thing I have trouble understanding is this.... How can the same people be worried about human extinction as a result of environmental collapse, also think we might be able to develop a sustainable colony on Mars. I agree that climate change is a huge problem and could result in horrific loss of life and a world wide traumatic event like we have never seen before. But there is no way that global warming will make this planet LESS hospitable than Mars could be possibly be in the next 200 years.

SubiculumCode 8y ago

-a testament to open data sciences. I think the same will be true with neuroscience data of today...more informed scientists of the future will download our data off the open repositories and make novel predictions based off their better understanding.

mistrial9 8y ago

offtopic -- an article got a lot of attention recently about renewed means of sea-level rise via heat expansion.. clicking on a few links got a pretty exemplary set of reproducible data tables and code, and several research publications showing years of inquiry.. as a Westerner, an interesting note is that it all came from a China PRC lab, quite a bit in English, and out-performing many "Nature Climate" sort of things, from an "open" standpoint.. quite the reversal, on a crucial topic. Lijing Cheng et al International Center for Climate and Environment Sciences, Institute of Atmospheric Physics, Chinese Academy of Sciences, Beijing 100029, China