3 ms·

Teens more competent than we assume

12 points by bootload 19y ago

dgabriel 19y ago
I completely agree. It's tragic how little we value the strengths and contributions of people who just happen to be younger than 18. True story - I met Robert Epstein's lawyer in Shay's yesterday. He hit on me and insulted my boyfriend. I have his card right here.
- mynameishere 19y ago
  I have his card right here. Ah, so you also insulted your boyfriend. .............. At any rate, nothing you can say vis-a-vis teenagers today is necessarily comparable to the past. In the past, certain things would have not be thinkable. No--they didn't restrict teenagers from getting tattoo parlors or going into tanning salons (bother invariably stupid behaviors) but only because such things didn't exist. Restrictions on drinking were less severe, no doubt. But such leniancy predated regular car ownership. Likewise, economic changes have changed the meaning of "good" work from manual labor, which teens are capable of, to such things as quiet and steady and detail-oriented paperwork...which teens are not so good at. The bigger problem is the excessive sexualization of young people--not just teens. Somehow I doubt that Psychology Today is too concerned.
  - dazzawazza 19y ago
    I think they make a reference to the sexualisation of children through the agressive marketing they refer to. It is because we allow children to act as a herd, directionless and meaningless that they are vulnerable to these powerful marketing techniques. Adults to not allow children to operate in the adult world in any meaningful way so marketing people have filled the vacuum with, well, a vacuum, but a vacuum that they can make money from.
  - dgabriel 19y ago
    The card - Please, don't get me wrong, it's not something that will get any usage. It was thrust upon both of us, not secretly slipped to me under a table. Alcohol prohibitions have more to do with the cultural perception of drinking as "sinful," than the danger of driving. And, of course, setting something up as a taboo gives it a more powerful draw. Same with sex. I don't think the argument that teens are mostly suited for manual labor is correct. The amount of homework many teens get and complete is a testament to how well they handle boring paperwork. I'd argue that they're suited for entry level positions in many fields, even as young as 14, and not allowing them that opportunity is not the same as enforcing child labor laws to protect the easily exploited.
deleted 19y ago
[deleted]
swombat 19y ago
The factory system doesn't work in the modern world, because two years after graduation, whatever you learned is out of date I don't know what kind of school this guy went to, but none of the stuff I learnt at school is out of date. If your school teaches you stuff that goes out of date in 2 years, you're going to the wrong school, pal. Examples of stuff that don't go out of date: * Maths * Physics * English * History * Geography (ok that goes slightly out of date, but very slowly) * Foreign Languages * Ancient Languages (Latin, Greek - out of date in 2 years my ass) I stopped reading at this point - such a blatantly false premise can't possibly lead to an article worth reading. Was I right? Daniel
- dazzawazza 19y ago
  I think the factory system referes not to the subjects but the methods of teaching. It has been argued for the last 40 years or so that modern education just creates humans to work in cubicles since that is what employers want. This does not benifit society. An example in the UK is that all TEN year olds in the UK are taught to use Excel, Power Point and Word. They are not taught what these tools are for or how they work but how to use them. It has no educational value but gets the children ready for their working life of complete boredom. It is a complete waste of time in my opinion. Example 2: All UK children from 9 are given lessons and tests in using a calculator. This can be inspite of the fact that they may not 'understand' multiplication (note I mean understand as opposed to perform). Children are taught that education is needed so that you can get a good job (in a cubicle). While this is true it is a small part of the world as any adult knows. The idea of life learning is absent from modern education. Little or no attempt is made by the system to inspire children to go beyond the syllabus, children who fall behind are however 'worked' until they catch up. BTW I do not blame teachers for this. As education has become more prescriptive and motivational the role of teaching has been sidelined. It's a good article and as a parent it rings true to me. PS: I have two children aged 10 and 3 in the UK education system atm.
  - swombat 19y ago
    Ah, well, from the sound of it, the curriculum's changed a bit since I did my schooling in Switzerland (I'm only 28, though, so it can't have changed THAT much). Certainly what you describe sounds pretty useless. Daniel

12 points by bootload 19y ago

I completely agree. It's tragic how little we value the strengths and contributions of people who just happen to be younger than 18. True story - I met Robert Epstein's lawyer in Shay's yesterday. He hit on me and insulted my boyfriend. I have his card right here.

mynameishere 19y ago
I have his card right here. Ah, so you also insulted your boyfriend. .............. At any rate, nothing you can say vis-a-vis teenagers today is necessarily comparable to the past. In the past, certain things would have not be thinkable. No--they didn't restrict teenagers from getting tattoo parlors or going into tanning salons (bother invariably stupid behaviors) but only because such things didn't exist. Restrictions on drinking were less severe, no doubt. But such leniancy predated regular car ownership. Likewise, economic changes have changed the meaning of "good" work from manual labor, which teens are capable of, to such things as quiet and steady and detail-oriented paperwork...which teens are not so good at. The bigger problem is the excessive sexualization of young people--not just teens. Somehow I doubt that Psychology Today is too concerned.
- dazzawazza 19y ago
  I think they make a reference to the sexualisation of children through the agressive marketing they refer to. It is because we allow children to act as a herd, directionless and meaningless that they are vulnerable to these powerful marketing techniques. Adults to not allow children to operate in the adult world in any meaningful way so marketing people have filled the vacuum with, well, a vacuum, but a vacuum that they can make money from.
- dgabriel 19y ago
  The card - Please, don't get me wrong, it's not something that will get any usage. It was thrust upon both of us, not secretly slipped to me under a table. Alcohol prohibitions have more to do with the cultural perception of drinking as "sinful," than the danger of driving. And, of course, setting something up as a taboo gives it a more powerful draw. Same with sex. I don't think the argument that teens are mostly suited for manual labor is correct. The amount of homework many teens get and complete is a testament to how well they handle boring paperwork. I'd argue that they're suited for entry level positions in many fields, even as young as 14, and not allowing them that opportunity is not the same as enforcing child labor laws to protect the easily exploited.

deleted 19y ago

[deleted]

swombat 19y ago

The factory system doesn't work in the modern world, because two years after graduation, whatever you learned is out of date I don't know what kind of school this guy went to, but none of the stuff I learnt at school is out of date. If your school teaches you stuff that goes out of date in 2 years, you're going to the wrong school, pal. Examples of stuff that don't go out of date: * Maths * Physics * English * History * Geography (ok that goes slightly out of date, but very slowly) * Foreign Languages * Ancient Languages (Latin, Greek - out of date in 2 years my ass) I stopped reading at this point - such a blatantly false premise can't possibly lead to an article worth reading. Was I right? Daniel

dazzawazza 19y ago
I think the factory system referes not to the subjects but the methods of teaching. It has been argued for the last 40 years or so that modern education just creates humans to work in cubicles since that is what employers want. This does not benifit society. An example in the UK is that all TEN year olds in the UK are taught to use Excel, Power Point and Word. They are not taught what these tools are for or how they work but how to use them. It has no educational value but gets the children ready for their working life of complete boredom. It is a complete waste of time in my opinion. Example 2: All UK children from 9 are given lessons and tests in using a calculator. This can be inspite of the fact that they may not 'understand' multiplication (note I mean understand as opposed to perform). Children are taught that education is needed so that you can get a good job (in a cubicle). While this is true it is a small part of the world as any adult knows. The idea of life learning is absent from modern education. Little or no attempt is made by the system to inspire children to go beyond the syllabus, children who fall behind are however 'worked' until they catch up. BTW I do not blame teachers for this. As education has become more prescriptive and motivational the role of teaching has been sidelined. It's a good article and as a parent it rings true to me. PS: I have two children aged 10 and 3 in the UK education system atm.
- swombat 19y ago
  Ah, well, from the sound of it, the curriculum's changed a bit since I did my schooling in Switzerland (I'm only 28, though, so it can't have changed THAT much). Certainly what you describe sounds pretty useless. Daniel