5 ms·

I couldn't agree more that this editor's fate is deserved and that this is an "apology" only in the traditional meaning of that word (an attempted defense and n

by grellas 16y ago

I couldn't agree more that this editor's fate is deserved and that this is an "apology" only in the traditional meaning of that word (an attempted defense and not a mea culpa), and a poor one at that. I also have been critical of her unbelievably tone-deaf approach to the subject of handling the complaint of an innocent person whom she had wronged (see http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1870300 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1870300). Yet, at some level, I do feel sorry for this person in a sense that I can best describe through an anecdote. I once had to fire one of my employees (an attorney) who had been with me no more than a few weeks and who produced atrociously bad work when measured by the standards that apply to legal work in the startup area (which must technically meet high standards or else). This employee was a very nice person but, as I saw her work in various contexts, I realized that she was basically in way over her head. The details are not important, except to note the following: as I was explaining the reasons for having to fire her, she had this astonished look in her eyes, as if, all through her schooling and prior work experiences, no one had ever been straight with her about her shortcomings. In essence, she truly didn't have what it took ever to be good in this field (I did not put it to her that bluntly, of course). As I talked with her and tried to encourage her in any way I could about her future, I was literally grieved to realize that this young lady had essentially been coddled all the way through the school system in a way that left her to hit a cold wall of reality only after having likely wasted all kinds of time and money in pursuing a career for which she was not at all suited. This was one of the saddest encounters I have ever had. Though I was the one who had been short-changed in the relationship, and hurt financially owing to incompetent work, I could not help but feel profoundly sorry for that young lady. I would say that this editor too is a sadly misplaced person for her chosen field and that this whole episode has essentially exposed that fact in a very public way. There is something quite tragic in all this, even as it is hard to sympathize either with her position taken in this fiasco or with her clumsy (and unwise) attempts to defend the indefensible. Above all, this must have been a severe embarrassment and humiliation for this editor, whether or not deserved, and at a human level I am truly sorry for her.

rfugger 16y ago
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect
- juiceandjuice 16y ago
  Is there a Dunning-Kruger effect for people's musical taste?
fjarlq 16y ago
Good point, I agree. It reminds me of fixed mindset people, which Ron Burk describes in this 5-minute Ignite presentation, The Psychology of Incompetence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vcy7I0zIM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vcy7I0zIM * Over-estimate their own abilities * Hide, minimize, and blame away failures * Solutions shouldn't require hard work (effort is for less talented folks) * Avoid seeking help/training * Are easily frustrated by setbacks
- BerislavLopac 16y ago
  Ouch! Now imagine living in a country where at least 50% of people (and about 80% in business management) have that mindset... :/
lionhearted 16y ago
Sounds like you handled it as well as possible. I remember one time had to let someone go that I'd recruited away from another pretty decent job - that was one of the most gut-wrenching things I've had to do in business. I actually kept him on and let it drag out three months without him producing anything because I couldn't get up the nerve to face the fact I'd made a mistake. Not just a mistake, but a mistake that would screw someone else's life up that I respected and liked. It all worked out well - he's becoming a doctor at one of the top English schools now, so I wish I'd done it earlier so he could have gotten on with his life, and I'd have had a lot less stress and my business would have done better. Wavering on it made him dead man walking for three months, and cost me personally $10,000+, more if you count opportunity cost, much more if you count stress. So I gotta say you handled that the best possible way, even though that situation is always hard and always sucks. Someone who hasn't managed people probably can't understand how hard it is to let someone go and do it decently. Sounds like you did right by her in the best way for that situation.
semipermeable 16y ago
People who appear to be coddled through their education may just have taken the easy way out and cheated: http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/125329/ http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/125329/
- cheald 16y ago
  I had a reply filled with disbelief about the ability to successfully cheat through law school, but after reading that article I'm truly blown away. It's beyond pitiful - in the literal, not pejorative sense - how many people manage to get through our so-called higher education without so much as the ability to communicate on a sixth-grade level. I guess all I can do is teach my kids the value of what it means to love learning, and how to communicate their thoughts and ideas well. The system obviously hasn't figured out how to make that happen yet.
- pyre 16y ago
  But if they couldn't do the work in school (needing to turn to someone else to do their assignments), then why would they be flabbergasted that they couldn't do the work on their own outside of school?
timwiseman 16y ago
You, as always, make good points. I have great sympathy for the editor on a human level, and I too have wound up in over my head in the past. And yet, it is far better for a failing business to be forced to close and for someone that cannot handle the job to be removed from the position than for them to continue to be coddled by employers or society. I must respectfully disagree with one statement you made though. You said, "she truly didn't have what it took ever to be good in this field". Clearly, I have not met this lady, but I am a great believer in people's ability to change. Perhaps success in the field would have required that she learn more, work harder, and perhaps even alter her personality, but I suspect all of those things would have been possible if she truly wanted it. Such drastic changes are likely rare, but they can be done.

by grellas 16y ago

rfugger 16y ago

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

juiceandjuice 16y ago
Is there a Dunning-Kruger effect for people's musical taste?

fjarlq 16y ago

Good point, I agree. It reminds me of fixed mindset people, which Ron Burk describes in this 5-minute Ignite presentation, The Psychology of Incompetence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vcy7I0zIM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L_vcy7I0zIM * Over-estimate their own abilities * Hide, minimize, and blame away failures * Solutions shouldn't require hard work (effort is for less talented folks) * Avoid seeking help/training * Are easily frustrated by setbacks

BerislavLopac 16y ago
Ouch! Now imagine living in a country where at least 50% of people (and about 80% in business management) have that mindset... :/

lionhearted 16y ago

Sounds like you handled it as well as possible. I remember one time had to let someone go that I'd recruited away from another pretty decent job - that was one of the most gut-wrenching things I've had to do in business. I actually kept him on and let it drag out three months without him producing anything because I couldn't get up the nerve to face the fact I'd made a mistake. Not just a mistake, but a mistake that would screw someone else's life up that I respected and liked. It all worked out well - he's becoming a doctor at one of the top English schools now, so I wish I'd done it earlier so he could have gotten on with his life, and I'd have had a lot less stress and my business would have done better. Wavering on it made him dead man walking for three months, and cost me personally $10,000+, more if you count opportunity cost, much more if you count stress. So I gotta say you handled that the best possible way, even though that situation is always hard and always sucks. Someone who hasn't managed people probably can't understand how hard it is to let someone go and do it decently. Sounds like you did right by her in the best way for that situation.

semipermeable 16y ago

People who appear to be coddled through their education may just have taken the easy way out and cheated: http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/125329/ http://chronicle.com/article/article-content/125329/

cheald 16y ago
I had a reply filled with disbelief about the ability to successfully cheat through law school, but after reading that article I'm truly blown away. It's beyond pitiful - in the literal, not pejorative sense - how many people manage to get through our so-called higher education without so much as the ability to communicate on a sixth-grade level. I guess all I can do is teach my kids the value of what it means to love learning, and how to communicate their thoughts and ideas well. The system obviously hasn't figured out how to make that happen yet.
pyre 16y ago
But if they couldn't do the work in school (needing to turn to someone else to do their assignments), then why would they be flabbergasted that they couldn't do the work on their own outside of school?

timwiseman 16y ago

You, as always, make good points. I have great sympathy for the editor on a human level, and I too have wound up in over my head in the past. And yet, it is far better for a failing business to be forced to close and for someone that cannot handle the job to be removed from the position than for them to continue to be coddled by employers or society. I must respectfully disagree with one statement you made though. You said, "she truly didn't have what it took ever to be good in this field". Clearly, I have not met this lady, but I am a great believer in people's ability to change. Perhaps success in the field would have required that she learn more, work harder, and perhaps even alter her personality, but I suspect all of those things would have been possible if she truly wanted it. Such drastic changes are likely rare, but they can be done.