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There is an currently an outbreak of Measles in Washington. Yet the anti-vaxers are still out in force, against any move by the government requiring vaxination

There is an currently an outbreak of Measles in Washington. Yet the anti-vaxers are still out in force, against any move by the government requiring vaxination.[1] People with children too young to be vacinated are running scared[2]. its odd. I really wonder sometimes what is driving the anti vax movement. It seems like something that exists with nothing for anyone to gain. I'm all for questioning things, but it seems people aren't able to make the rational decisions and are endangering others. [1]https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/02/08/washington-measles-outbreak-draws-crowd-hearing-vaccine-law https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2019/02/08/washington-... [2]https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/it-will-take-off-like-a-wildfire-the-unique-dangers-of-the-washington-state-measles-outbreak/2019/02/06/cfd5088a-28fa-11e9-b011-d8500644dc98_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/it-wi...

mindslight 8y ago
It's a great thing that the anti-vaxers are coming out in force. Ideally on a calm day. What a lot of people seem to be missing is that the anti-vaxxers are actually pro-science. They are sacrificing to reproduce a result that the rest of us consider settled. The quicker they're able to draw a conclusion from their experiment, the better.
- colemickens 8y ago
  It's a good thing that these people's young children may contract violent whooping cough, or may die a miserable death, because their parents have freedom? It's good thing that others who can't vaccinate or otherwise benefit from herd immunity are getting sick while we let these parents play out their experiment? I suspect you didn't mean that, but I think we need to take this more seriously, again, per the grandparent, given the broader public health risk that this movement plays, particularly outside its adherents.
  - tapland 8y ago
    Wooping cough vaccines have full effect for about 10 years. Adults get it, but a lot don't consider wooping cough since they assume the vaccines last forever.
  - mindslight 8y ago
    What you have said is indeed the direct implication of what I said. And I did mean to say what I said. I've got to wonder if the sensationalist panic of our times isn't simply due to people not being able to accept mild sarcasm in written form. Humor is a coping mechanism - read some horrible less-mediated truth, shake your head, sigh, and build some consensus based around calming rather than outrage. What I am plainly sure of is that getting more and more worked up ("take this more seriously") about the actions of people I can't control isn't going to solve the problem either.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
    - amaccuish 8y ago
      If you're not actually interested in debate and discussion, then why would you comment on here?
      - mindslight 8y ago
        Where have I implied that I am not interested in debate or discussion? I reacted to what was basically grandstanding over the tone I made my points with.
    - DanBC 8y ago
      When multiple people misunderstand you the problem is with your writing, not with their comprehension.
      - mindslight 8y ago
        I don't think the issue was with understanding, but rather with my comment detracting from the moral panic.
  - colemickens 8y ago
    Wow, HN, I can't help myself; why on Earth is this flagged? My post, even in the most critical light, says four things: * Kids are getting sick in my state, from the measles, because parents refuse to vaccine kids that are perfectly capable of receiving the vaccination. * Kids, across the country, in and near anti-vax communities, are contracting whooping cough. ITS A FACT. SORRY. * Whooping cough is "violent". Maybe one of you can show me a video of a child with whooping chough that you wouldn't call "violent". How about one that you don't call "horrificly violent", even? * That I could be misreading, though the parent commenter has indeed confirmed that my comment is an accurate read. So? We just don't like having it pointed out, or what? Also, big shoutout to HN for "rate-limiting" me from being able to reply to the undoubtedly good-faith commenter who is openly suggesting we let the children of anti-vaxxers just die; the one commenting in a subthread about herd immunity who clearly has no idea what herd immunity is. My comment remains positive, and there are no rule violation. I engaged in good faith (I certainly didn't think they were going to openly call for the deaths of anti-vax kids or act like it was a serious position to hold). But hey, it's HN, so I should know that being offended at implicitly violent attitudes or calling out people's bullshit here would automatically land me in trouble.
- mikeash 8y ago
  Unfortunately, because vaccines aren’t 100% effective and not all people can handle them, their experiment is also sacrificing others, not just themselves.
  - mindslight 8y ago
    This is another reason we want as many as possible to be somewhere predictable.
MagnumOpus 8y ago
> I really wonder sometimes what is driving the anti vax movement. It seems like something that exists with nothing for anyone to gain. Likely answer: The Russian government.[1][2] It is yet another way to weaken their perceived rivals/adversaries by taking positions taken by fringe groups of insane people and amplifying their message thousandfold in order to sow social division. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45294192 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45294192 [2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/23/russian-trolls-bots-fuelled-anti-vaccination-debate/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/23/russian-trolls-b...
- acomjean 8y ago
  Interesting. At first it seems like a crazy issue to sow discord about, and one with serious health consequences. But it worked, and the anti-vax movement which was probably pretty small and fringe now gets amplified. I wonder if its was just a test for other dis information campaigns. I think the promise of social media was you could get information from networks you trusted, but it seems it doesn’t work like that. The amplification by anonymous sources seems to work. Thanks for the articles

mindslight 8y ago

It's a great thing that the anti-vaxers are coming out in force. Ideally on a calm day. What a lot of people seem to be missing is that the anti-vaxxers are actually pro-science. They are sacrificing to reproduce a result that the rest of us consider settled. The quicker they're able to draw a conclusion from their experiment, the better.

colemickens 8y ago
It's a good thing that these people's young children may contract violent whooping cough, or may die a miserable death, because their parents have freedom? It's good thing that others who can't vaccinate or otherwise benefit from herd immunity are getting sick while we let these parents play out their experiment? I suspect you didn't mean that, but I think we need to take this more seriously, again, per the grandparent, given the broader public health risk that this movement plays, particularly outside its adherents.
- tapland 8y ago
  Wooping cough vaccines have full effect for about 10 years. Adults get it, but a lot don't consider wooping cough since they assume the vaccines last forever.
- mindslight 8y ago
  What you have said is indeed the direct implication of what I said. And I did mean to say what I said. I've got to wonder if the sensationalist panic of our times isn't simply due to people not being able to accept mild sarcasm in written form. Humor is a coping mechanism - read some horrible less-mediated truth, shake your head, sigh, and build some consensus based around calming rather than outrage. What I am plainly sure of is that getting more and more worked up ("take this more seriously") about the actions of people I can't control isn't going to solve the problem either.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - amaccuish 8y ago
    If you're not actually interested in debate and discussion, then why would you comment on here?
    - mindslight 8y ago
      Where have I implied that I am not interested in debate or discussion? I reacted to what was basically grandstanding over the tone I made my points with.
  - DanBC 8y ago
    When multiple people misunderstand you the problem is with your writing, not with their comprehension.
    - mindslight 8y ago
      I don't think the issue was with understanding, but rather with my comment detracting from the moral panic.
- colemickens 8y ago
  Wow, HN, I can't help myself; why on Earth is this flagged? My post, even in the most critical light, says four things: * Kids are getting sick in my state, from the measles, because parents refuse to vaccine kids that are perfectly capable of receiving the vaccination. * Kids, across the country, in and near anti-vax communities, are contracting whooping cough. ITS A FACT. SORRY. * Whooping cough is "violent". Maybe one of you can show me a video of a child with whooping chough that you wouldn't call "violent". How about one that you don't call "horrificly violent", even? * That I could be misreading, though the parent commenter has indeed confirmed that my comment is an accurate read. So? We just don't like having it pointed out, or what? Also, big shoutout to HN for "rate-limiting" me from being able to reply to the undoubtedly good-faith commenter who is openly suggesting we let the children of anti-vaxxers just die; the one commenting in a subthread about herd immunity who clearly has no idea what herd immunity is. My comment remains positive, and there are no rule violation. I engaged in good faith (I certainly didn't think they were going to openly call for the deaths of anti-vax kids or act like it was a serious position to hold). But hey, it's HN, so I should know that being offended at implicitly violent attitudes or calling out people's bullshit here would automatically land me in trouble.
mikeash 8y ago
Unfortunately, because vaccines aren’t 100% effective and not all people can handle them, their experiment is also sacrificing others, not just themselves.
- mindslight 8y ago
  This is another reason we want as many as possible to be somewhere predictable.

MagnumOpus 8y ago

> I really wonder sometimes what is driving the anti vax movement. It seems like something that exists with nothing for anyone to gain. Likely answer: The Russian government.[1][2] It is yet another way to weaken their perceived rivals/adversaries by taking positions taken by fringe groups of insane people and amplifying their message thousandfold in order to sow social division. [1] https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45294192 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-45294192 [2] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/23/russian-trolls-bots-fuelled-anti-vaccination-debate/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/08/23/russian-trolls-b...

acomjean 8y ago
Interesting. At first it seems like a crazy issue to sow discord about, and one with serious health consequences. But it worked, and the anti-vax movement which was probably pretty small and fringe now gets amplified. I wonder if its was just a test for other dis information campaigns. I think the promise of social media was you could get information from networks you trusted, but it seems it doesn’t work like that. The amplification by anonymous sources seems to work. Thanks for the articles