4 ms·

Only a small part adjacent to god-blessed America is something like a warzone.

by zeofig 8y ago

tamalesfan 8y ago
The 91 people killed in January while stealing gasoline from a deliberately ruptured pipeline burned to death 320 miles South of the US border. When 43 students were rounded up by the police and handed over to a cartel for execution and disposal in 2014 they were 532 miles south of the US; halfway to Guatemala. The 2011 Monterrey casino arson attack that killed 52 people was 90 miles from the US. I know it's the fashion to Blame America First in all things, but Mexico has enormous problems well beyond its border with the US.
- cosmez 8y ago
  Killed while stealing gasoline? they were filling running old trucks with gasoline and drilling on gasoline pipes.
- CptFribble 8y ago
  The drug violence is fueled by the USA's demand for drugs. We also lack the political will to try things that have worked elsewhere, like decriminalization, even on a small scale. Not saying the USA is responsible for solving Mexico's problems, but we do have a lot of national soul-searching to do if we want to get serious about drug violence in both countries.
  - loeg 8y ago
    Nitpicking (sorry), but decriminialization of use doesn't fix the supply side of the equation — production, distribution, and sale would still be black market. To erode the cartels' profits we would also have to legalize (or decriminialize, but at that point, might as well just legalize) production and sale.
  - tamalesfan 8y ago
    > The drug violence is fueled by the USA's demand for drugs. So goes the conventional group think. Thing is Mexico isn't the only nation that shares a long border with the US. Yet somehow Canada isn't yet another murder capital of the world, busily feeding the relentless US appetite for drugs. But analyzing the difference between Mexico and Canada isn't something you're allow to do; it rapidly produces extremely uncomfortable results that contemporary good-thinkers don't ever dare entertain.
  - acct1771 8y ago
    The drug violence is fueled by the USA's intelligence agencies being on slash supporting both sides.
- gammateam 8y ago
  > I know it’s the fashion to... But thats not what they said. They said a small area within Mexico is like a warzone. And then you wrote about several small areas, of which you highlighted incidents over the last decade, so I guess nothing is even happening in those areas now? Interesting way to agree with someone. Handful of knowledge, weird flex but ok.
  - loeg 8y ago
    The original comment claimed that the small violent area of Mexico was (exclusively) adjacent to the US border. The thrust of the comment you replied to was that in fact, violence was not constrained to the US border. I think you failed to read tamalesfan's comment accurately (much less charitably). The snarky comment looks especially foolish when you're so off-base.
    - gammateam 8y ago
      Okay, I was thinking they were referring to the country adjacent to the US border, and small parts of it Different way of reading it
briandear 8y ago
Michoacán is "adjacent" to America? It's one of the most dangerous places. Acapulco was recently Mexico's murder capital -- also nowhere near the US. Violence in Tamaulipas has declined quite a bit; certain interior states are far more dangerous these days. Mexico is a nice place, but the murder rate is 25 per 100,000 people, compared to 4.9 in the US and 6.2 globally. As far as the war zone aspect -- I lived near Guadalajara in a small town called Chapala and, when you're in Guadalajara, it often does seem like a war zone. In our "peaceful" enclave, there were frequent (several times per year) shootouts with police and gang-on-gang violence along with innocent people being victimized, robbed or killed. Just a few days ago, a 78 year old Canadian expat was walking through San Antonio Tlayacapan (a nice community next to lake Chapala) and was shot in the head twice in broad daylight on the street.[0] Chapala is pretty much a peaceful retirement community, yet even there, there is brutal violence. With the Jalisco NG Cartel, there is a substantial military and paramilitary presence across various areas of Guadalajara. Large police pickup trucks with machine guns mounted in the bed isn't something I've ever seen -- outside of an actual war zone. I've been in US Army units that have been less heavily armed than some of the standard police in Guadalajara. Heavily armed patrols in full military "battle-rattle" are a mainstay of the city. Anyone that's suggesting that Mexico is a peaceful place must be asleep. The Mexican people are generally very peaceful and I typically feel safe enough there, but that's not much different than how friendly Afghanis are -- despite Taliban activity in the neighborhood. You're definitely taking much different precautions traveling through Mexico than you would traveling through Los Angeles. I love Mexico, my wife is from there, I go there all the time -- but suggesting it's a war zone? That's not too far from the truth -- the Mexican marines recently took over security in Acapulco.[4] If that isn't the definition of "war zone," I'm not sure that word has any meaning. You'd have to be oblivious not to see the war zone aspects in many parts of the country. [1] https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/canadian-expat-78-shot-and-killed-in-chapala/ https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/canadian-expat-78-shot-and-... [2] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6024568/cancun-murders-mexico-drug-gang/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6024568/cancun-murders-mexico-... [3] https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/michoacan-turf-war-fuels-crisis-of-violence/ https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/michoacan-turf-war-fuels-cr... [4] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/26/marines-swoop-acapulco-entire-citys-police-force-placed-investigation/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/26/marines-swoop-ac...

Only a small part adjacent to god-blessed America is something like a warzone.

by zeofig 8y ago

Only a small part adjacent to god-blessed America is something like a warzone.

The 91 people killed in January while stealing gasoline from a deliberately ruptured pipeline burned to death 320 miles South of the US border. When 43 students were rounded up by the police and handed over to a cartel for execution and disposal in 2014 they were 532 miles south of the US; halfway to Guatemala. The 2011 Monterrey casino arson attack that killed 52 people was 90 miles from the US. I know it's the fashion to Blame America First in all things, but Mexico has enormous problems well beyond its border with the US.

cosmez 8y ago
Killed while stealing gasoline? they were filling running old trucks with gasoline and drilling on gasoline pipes.
CptFribble 8y ago
The drug violence is fueled by the USA's demand for drugs. We also lack the political will to try things that have worked elsewhere, like decriminalization, even on a small scale. Not saying the USA is responsible for solving Mexico's problems, but we do have a lot of national soul-searching to do if we want to get serious about drug violence in both countries.
- loeg 8y ago
  Nitpicking (sorry), but decriminialization of use doesn't fix the supply side of the equation — production, distribution, and sale would still be black market. To erode the cartels' profits we would also have to legalize (or decriminialize, but at that point, might as well just legalize) production and sale.
- tamalesfan 8y ago
  > The drug violence is fueled by the USA's demand for drugs. So goes the conventional group think. Thing is Mexico isn't the only nation that shares a long border with the US. Yet somehow Canada isn't yet another murder capital of the world, busily feeding the relentless US appetite for drugs. But analyzing the difference between Mexico and Canada isn't something you're allow to do; it rapidly produces extremely uncomfortable results that contemporary good-thinkers don't ever dare entertain.
- acct1771 8y ago
  The drug violence is fueled by the USA's intelligence agencies being on slash supporting both sides.
gammateam 8y ago
> I know it’s the fashion to... But thats not what they said. They said a small area within Mexico is like a warzone. And then you wrote about several small areas, of which you highlighted incidents over the last decade, so I guess nothing is even happening in those areas now? Interesting way to agree with someone. Handful of knowledge, weird flex but ok.
- loeg 8y ago
  The original comment claimed that the small violent area of Mexico was (exclusively) adjacent to the US border. The thrust of the comment you replied to was that in fact, violence was not constrained to the US border. I think you failed to read tamalesfan's comment accurately (much less charitably). The snarky comment looks especially foolish when you're so off-base.
  - gammateam 8y ago
    Okay, I was thinking they were referring to the country adjacent to the US border, and small parts of it Different way of reading it

briandear 8y ago

Michoacán is "adjacent" to America? It's one of the most dangerous places. Acapulco was recently Mexico's murder capital -- also nowhere near the US. Violence in Tamaulipas has declined quite a bit; certain interior states are far more dangerous these days. Mexico is a nice place, but the murder rate is 25 per 100,000 people, compared to 4.9 in the US and 6.2 globally. As far as the war zone aspect -- I lived near Guadalajara in a small town called Chapala and, when you're in Guadalajara, it often does seem like a war zone. In our "peaceful" enclave, there were frequent (several times per year) shootouts with police and gang-on-gang violence along with innocent people being victimized, robbed or killed. Just a few days ago, a 78 year old Canadian expat was walking through San Antonio Tlayacapan (a nice community next to lake Chapala) and was shot in the head twice in broad daylight on the street.[0] Chapala is pretty much a peaceful retirement community, yet even there, there is brutal violence. With the Jalisco NG Cartel, there is a substantial military and paramilitary presence across various areas of Guadalajara. Large police pickup trucks with machine guns mounted in the bed isn't something I've ever seen -- outside of an actual war zone. I've been in US Army units that have been less heavily armed than some of the standard police in Guadalajara. Heavily armed patrols in full military "battle-rattle" are a mainstay of the city. Anyone that's suggesting that Mexico is a peaceful place must be asleep. The Mexican people are generally very peaceful and I typically feel safe enough there, but that's not much different than how friendly Afghanis are -- despite Taliban activity in the neighborhood. You're definitely taking much different precautions traveling through Mexico than you would traveling through Los Angeles. I love Mexico, my wife is from there, I go there all the time -- but suggesting it's a war zone? That's not too far from the truth -- the Mexican marines recently took over security in Acapulco.[4] If that isn't the definition of "war zone," I'm not sure that word has any meaning. You'd have to be oblivious not to see the war zone aspects in many parts of the country. [1] https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/canadian-expat-78-shot-and-killed-in-chapala/ https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/canadian-expat-78-shot-and-... [2] https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6024568/cancun-murders-mexico-drug-gang/ https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/6024568/cancun-murders-mexico-... [3] https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/michoacan-turf-war-fuels-crisis-of-violence/ https://mexiconewsdaily.com/news/michoacan-turf-war-fuels-cr... [4] https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/26/marines-swoop-acapulco-entire-citys-police-force-placed-investigation/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/09/26/marines-swoop-ac...