4 ms·

That is a bit of a silly comparison. Even if you let a criminal borrow your car and they do something bad, there is some sort of legal apparatus to get your car

That is a bit of a silly comparison. Even if you let a criminal borrow your car and they do something bad, there is some sort of legal apparatus to get your car back if it's clear that you were not involved in that criminal activity. The impound lot doesn't simply say "sorry, we saw your appeal, but we're gonna go ahead and keep the car forever."

jjeaff 8y ago
You would think. But civil forfeiture doesn't care who owns what they take, only whether it was used in a crime. You may be stuck paying court costs to defend your property and get it back. Which is why we have tons of ridiculous court cases like: "Bag full of hundred dollar bills V. US Government."
- behringer 8y ago
  There's a lot of people that think civil forfeiture is also fundamentally wrong.
dhimes 8y ago
Not just keep the car, but "you can never drive in country again."
justtopost 8y ago
There is no such apparatus. Any property used in comission of a crime is forfit, no matter of original owner. Stolen guns, cars and cert are all treated the same under the law. On the other hand, I get great deals at police auctions and never lend out my keys.
- eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
  Yes, there is, it's called the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution. It's called the US legal system. That is the apparatus. You have no constitutional right to have a Google account. And you probably agreed to forced arbitration in the Google TOS and likely even agreed that Google can terminate your account for any reason, at any time, without cause. Good example: https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/police-tennessee-legally-steal-veterans-car https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-poli... Son commits crime using father's car and car is seized using civil forfeiture. The car has already been returned and the ACLU is fighting the police department in federal court: https://www.tba.org/sites/default/files/cain.complaint.pdf https://www.tba.org/sites/default/files/cain.complaint.pdf Not saying civil forfeiture doesn't need to be reigned in, it does, but there is a legal apparatus for getting your stuff back. I admit it gets trickier on things that cannot be traced easily, like cash, but I'm mostly responding to the OPs example of an innocent persons car being used in a crime by someone else. Another good example below where the owner of the vehicle committed a crime in the car they owned and the state tried to seize the vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbs_v._Indiana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbs_v._Indiana So, I admit the legal system moves slow, but there is clearly a strong legal case for fighting these unlawful seizures.

jjeaff 8y ago

You would think. But civil forfeiture doesn't care who owns what they take, only whether it was used in a crime. You may be stuck paying court costs to defend your property and get it back. Which is why we have tons of ridiculous court cases like: "Bag full of hundred dollar bills V. US Government."

behringer 8y ago
There's a lot of people that think civil forfeiture is also fundamentally wrong.

dhimes 8y ago

Not just keep the car, but "you can never drive in country again."

justtopost 8y ago

There is no such apparatus. Any property used in comission of a crime is forfit, no matter of original owner. Stolen guns, cars and cert are all treated the same under the law. On the other hand, I get great deals at police auctions and never lend out my keys.

eeeeeeeeeeeee 8y ago
Yes, there is, it's called the Fourth Amendment to the US Constitution. It's called the US legal system. That is the apparatus. You have no constitutional right to have a Google account. And you probably agreed to forced arbitration in the Google TOS and likely even agreed that Google can terminate your account for any reason, at any time, without cause. Good example: https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-police-practices/police-tennessee-legally-steal-veterans-car https://www.aclu.org/blog/criminal-law-reform/reforming-poli... Son commits crime using father's car and car is seized using civil forfeiture. The car has already been returned and the ACLU is fighting the police department in federal court: https://www.tba.org/sites/default/files/cain.complaint.pdf https://www.tba.org/sites/default/files/cain.complaint.pdf Not saying civil forfeiture doesn't need to be reigned in, it does, but there is a legal apparatus for getting your stuff back. I admit it gets trickier on things that cannot be traced easily, like cash, but I'm mostly responding to the OPs example of an innocent persons car being used in a crime by someone else. Another good example below where the owner of the vehicle committed a crime in the car they owned and the state tried to seize the vehicle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbs_v._Indiana https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timbs_v._Indiana So, I admit the legal system moves slow, but there is clearly a strong legal case for fighting these unlawful seizures.